Talk:Hakeem Olajuwon

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Africa
Africa Portal
This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Africa, which collaborates on articles related to Africa in Wikipedia. To participate, you can edit this article or visit the project page for more details.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.
This article is supported by WikiProject Togo.
Assessment comments

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Hakeem Olajuwon article.
Article policies
Good article Hakeem Olajuwon has been listed as one of the Everyday life good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.
This article must adhere to the policy on biographies of living persons. Controversial material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted or if there are other concerns relative to this policy, report it on the living persons biographies noticeboard.
Maintained The following user(s) are actively contributing to this article and may be able to help with questions about verification and sources:
Quadzilla99 (talk • contribs • email)
This in no way implies article ownership; all editors are encouraged to contribute.

Contents

[edit] Derrick Becker

olajuwon did not give money to al-qaeda. please try not to slander people.

too bad about him giving money to al-qaida —Preceding unsigned comment added by Derrickbecker74 (talk • contribs)

just because hes muslim doesnt it mean that he gives money to al-qaida, btw why write he was undisciplined under the muslim faith contents?

He was undisciplined and readily admits it we need a source on that though. Quadzilla99 02:59, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Source was added. Quadzilla99 14:59, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Old photo

Please mark which one is him on the picture

[edit] Name

I think that he was born Hakeem, then changed it to Akeem because people were incorrectly pronouncing the H, and then when he felt that pronunciation would no longer be the problem, he changed it back to Hakeem. I think that the article thus incorrectly notes his birth name as Akeem.

[edit] NPOV violation

I edited out the following part of a sentence, "and making him look like an utter fool" in the "Dream Shake" section. Judgements on who is and isn't a fool do not belong in an encyclopedia article. JRed 21:40, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Two quadruple-doubles?

I remember him having a quadruple-double once, but two in the same month ? Seems a little dubious. BTW, the info was repeated on the quadruple-double article. Anyone who could check it ? Mrbluesky 23:45, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

  • This says he had only one. It is probably the best source of this information available on the net, and as such I am changing it.  Cdcon  16:46, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Never mind, already done on both pages.  Cdcon  16:47, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Quadruple-double

Olajuwon did actually have two quadruple-doubles in the space of a few weeks. The first, however, which was against the Golden State Warriors, was not made official. According to the box score, Olajuwon only had 29 points, 18 rebounds, 9 assists and 11 blocks. However, the Rockets reviewed the game tape and found an assist that had not been recorded. This was reported to the NBA. The league agreed that the assist had been missed, and added it to Olajuwon's season assist total, but said that old box scores could not be changed. And so the quadruple-double was not made official.

[edit] Dennis Rodman's mistake in the '95 WCF

I made a change, removing the sentence that said that part of the reason Robinson was outplayed in the 1995 Western Conference Finals was because Dennis Rodman refused to help out in guarding Olajuwon. This is simply untrue. The much talked-about mistake that Rodman made throughout the series was to refuse to move away from the basket and guard Robert Horry, who was hovering around the three-point line.

[edit] Nationality

Listed as Nigerian in the infobox... shouldn't that reflect his status as an American citizen (as mentioned in the article)?

[edit] Photograph

We really need a photo for him. Any help would be greatly appreciated.Quadzilla99 12:57, 23 August 2006 (UTC)


[edit] style of play, player profile

the two sections look like they can be merged.

[edit] "despite never having an All-Star colleague as a second option in his team."

This technically might be factually corrrect because I am not sure if Clyde Drexler made the All-star team in 94-95 season when the Rockets won the second of back to back championships. Regardless, he was a perenial all star, an all time great, and was a major contributor to winning the championship that season.

[edit] Top 5 Centers of All-Time

Apparently some users feel that Patrick Ewing is deserving of being mentioned as one of the top NBA centers of all-time. If this is your belief, please provide a source supporting the statement before adding Ewing to the list (or replacing one of the others in the list). Thank you. - Raetzsch 19:42, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree with the list but the source is fairly weak. Unless we can get a better source perhaps the list should just be removed and some other statement can be used to sum up his great career and place in history in the opening paragraph. Harvey100 01:26, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Harvey. Quadzilla99 02:54, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Print source has been added for Top 5 centers. - Raetzsch 17:16, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Good work Raetzsch. Quadzilla99 15:28, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

It's still opinion. It would be more reasonable to just call him "one of the greatest centers of all-time." TheyCallMeBruce

Well another source was added. A survey of 19 ESPN journalist and retired players, the 5 listed were the top 5. In addition there was a wide gap between the top 5 and the number 6 center. The top five received between 130 and 174 points and the number 6 center received 76 points:[1] Quadzilla99 00:28, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA Review

Honestly, I think you should go on and add this to the good article candidates. It is well-written, factually verifiable, broad in coverage, NPOV, stable, and contains images. In other words, it follows WP:WIAGA perfectly. I'd promote it no problem (I'd add it myself, but it may take a month to get approved that way) --Wizardman 17:31, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I added it. Quadzilla99 15:20, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Alright. I'd like to see the lead improve on a bit though. It's certainly good enough now for a GA though.--Wizardman 16:47, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Ok, I'm going too continue to work on it and improve it. I just got his autobiography so I expect to make several additions to it in the near future. Quadzilla99 21:04, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Copyedit in progress

Wikipedia:LoCE:In Progress

Hello! A copyedit was begun on this article about 6 months ago, but was not completed. Due to the volume of changes since then, I have removed this article from our current list of copyedit requests. If you would still like to have a copyedit, feel free to relist it on our request page. Thanks! Galena11 16:18, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reasons For Edit

Since, people see fit to revert it, I'll explain:

My issue with the old player profile, is that it consists entirely of stats and opinion. You get no idea of how Hakeem actually played.

This kind of stuff: "legitimate two-way threat" "smothering defense" "legendary footwork" is opinion. You can find sources that agree with your opinion, but it is still opinion. Check out some articles on Hannibal. Rather than go on about how "great" of a general he was and how "cunning" he was and rattle off stats about how many people he killed, they talk about his actual tactics.

If the only issue with what I wrote was a lack of sources, how heavily sourced should it be? If there were other issues, what are they?68.190.73.79 05:35, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Back to Quadruple Double

Up above, it mentions that Hakeem had a second quadruple-double (well, it would have been his first) and talks about the story. Do you have a source for this? I've heard this same story but the guy who told me told me in such a way as "this is what I've heard." This would be interesting to talk about on here, or at least on the quadruple-double page. That game is listed on the Five-by-five (Basketball) page as not only did he get a quadruple-double (unofficial, yes) but he also had 5 steals so it was a five-by-five.

StatisticsMan 04:20, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

I already added it to the quadruple double page with a source a while back. Quadzilla99 04:44, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
The only source I see is for the box score. I'm talking about the story. And, the note on the quadruple double page does not match the story told above. The note says the initial figure reads 10 and the league corrected it. The story above, same as the one I heard, says the initial read 9, Rockets watched the tape, found another, added it on, then the league said they could not change it after the fact.StatisticsMan 17:06, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
I don't know, you'll have to look around I don't really care that much. Quadzilla99 23:14, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
I have looked and have never seen anything on it. I was just asking if any one had a source, especially whoever put the story up on the talk page. StatisticsMan 16:10, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
Click the history button on top of the page and you can see who posted the message and then leave him/her a message. Quadzilla99 16:37, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Yoruba v. Yoruban

So perhaps the word "Yoruban" exists, but none of the Yoruba people I know have ever used that word. That, combined with the fact that you call an adult male Yoruba a "Yoruba man", not a "Yoruban man" make me suspect that "Yoruban" is simply erroneous, or analagous to calling someone from England an Englander rather than English...

In response to Quadzilla: You googled the word Yoruban and saw many hits, but I don't think this is a valid way of demonstrating that it is the proper adjective. Consider the following article from a Nigeria newspaper: http://www.sunnewsonline.com/webpages/features/showtime/2004/sept/03/showtime-september-03-006.htm

Observe that it uses the expressions "Yoruba language", "Yoruba programmes", "Yoruba land", "Yoruba people", "Yoruba news", but certainly not "Yoruban."

Hopefully this is enough to convince you. I shall change it back to "Yoruba" now.

Best, Dapo

Dapo Omidiran 20:43, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I guess you're right. It will have to be re-worded as it sounds awkward to an English reader now though. Something like "of the Yoruba ethnicity" or the sort. Incidentally, to most of the English speaking world ethnicities/nationalities that end in a vowel end in -n (American, Indian, Canadian, Russian) or -ese (Chinese etc.) I've never heard one that doesn't change form. Of course I'm not the most wordly guy. Quadzilla99 21:22, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rationale for recent edits.

Olajuwon gained a reputation of being a great clutch performer and also as one of the greatest centers of his generation based on his performances in the 1993–94 and 1994–95 seasons.[1] He outplayed centers such as Ewing, Dikembe Mutombo and O'Neal, and other defensive stalwarts like Dennis Rodman or Malone. His most difficult battles were with his fellow Texas-based rival David Robinson of the San Antonio Spurs where Olajuwon would usually outplay Robinson in the stat sheets.[2] While both players played for their respective Texan franchises, Olajuwon's Rockets were only 12–30 against Robinson's Spurs in 42 head–to–head games, but held the 4–2 advantage in the playoffs. From the 1989–90 season to the 1995–96 season, when both Olajuwon and Robinson were considered to be in their primes, in their 30 head–to–head matchups Olajuwon averaged 26.3 ppg, shooting 47.6% from the field. Robinson averaged 22.1 ppg, at 46.8% from the field.

Here are the parts I see problems with:

"His most difficult battles were with his fellow Texas-based rival David Robinson". Nowhere in the source for this part does it say that. Statistically, Olajuwon had a more difficult time with Shaq throughout his career.

"where Olajuwon would usually outplay Robinson in the stat sheets." Again, look at the source. It says he "outplayed" him and nothing more. It is not original research to say only that he outplayed him, as the source states this quite clearly.

"While both players played for their respective Texan franchises, Olajuwon's Rockets were only 12–30 against Robinson's Spurs in 42 head–to–head games, but held the 4–2 advantage in the playoffs." I don't particularly doubt that this is true, but aside from being not sourced (and therefore OR), it is also making this section unnecessarily long and much more about David Robinson and the Spurs than it should be. We should make sure to keep this article about Olajuwon and his accomplishments and not deviate too much by writing about his matchups with one opponent he played (or outplayed). --Ubiq 20:35, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Looking at it now a lot of your points are valid, I think putting the stats in there (which I didn't add incidentally) puts their matchup in the 95 WCF in perspective. People here are very converned with POV almost too much in my opinion. Maybe we can work up some compromise, I'll attempt that. Quadzilla99 20:44, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Okay I edited it. I removed the whole thing about the outplaying to avoid perceived POV; the head to head stats and the section on the 95 WCF put his performance relative to Robinson in perspective. The reader can see there respective positions in history pretty clearly for themselves. I removed the word "notably" as people aren't usually happy with that over on WP:FAC. "It should be noted" or "notably" is usually seen as someone telling people what to note. Quadzilla99 20:51, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
I was actually about to remove the word 'notably' myself until I saw you beat me to it. I'm also fine with removing the "outplaying" parts, as statistics can be provided to let the reader decide for themselves on that. Thanks for not letting this get too out of hand and compromising. Sorry for not including edit summaries in my initial edit. In the meantime I'll try to find some sources to support the last bit about the spurs being 30-12 against the rockets in that time. I think you may be right about it providing some context, I just initially saw it as unnecessary (i.e. there could be many reasons the spurs were 30-12 against the rockets in the regular season and none of them may have had to do with olajuwon himself). But in the grand scheme of things, it's not vitally important to exclude it as long as it's sourced.
The article on the whole is quite better than I remember it being a year or so ago, keep up the good work. --Ubiq 21:02, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, a fresh eye is always welcome—I've got over 500 edits to the article and perhaps can't see the forest for the trees at times. It's being copy-edited right now by the League of Copyeditors so that should also provide some fresh eyes. Quadzilla99 21:07, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Possible addition

I'm currently looking through the article to improve it as much as I can. I added some stats/records and while fact checking for one of the quotes from the Early life section, I stumbled upon this interview with Michael Jordan in which he chooses Hakeem to be in a theoretical starting 5 along with himself, Larry Bird, Scottie Pippen, and Magic Johnson. I like how the Michael Jordan article has a Legacy section and I think, after some work, we can do something similar for this article, perhaps including a few quotes from other players and various other things like what current players were influenced by Olajuwon (similar to how it is in the Jordan article). Note that I don't necessarily want to model this article after the Jordan one, but I think it wouldn't hurt to use a few stylistic techniques from it (afterall it was featured and one of the best sports BLPs on wikipedia). Thoughts anyone? --Ubiq 10:11, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bronze Statue at the Toyota Center?

Does someone want to add a new section about Houston erecting a statue in his honor? -RocketsFan —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.246.6.169 (talk) 19:28, 13 April 2008 (UTC)