Talk:Hair removal

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Contents 1 Axilism 2 Shaving for surgery 3 Reasons for Shaving in the Millitary 4 Use of 'piety' 5 For religious reasons - Jains 6 Removed crap 7 Page move / Name change 8 skinheads - political reasons for head shaving 9 Hairfacts 10 Recent alterations to Advantages and Disadvantages 11 External Links 12 Male body hair image

[edit] Axilism

I can't wait for someone to write the social role of hair. Tuf-Kat (PS: I'm totally serious)

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you are right to be serious. If you read french, here is what Philippe said about it

Le maillot à la brésilienne est un type de maillot de bain cher aux transsexuels de la même origine. La forme en est totalement anti-anatomique pour la pilosité féminine et exige un déboisement catastrophique. Les ravages dans les massifs buissonniers des monts de Vénus sont de plus en plus grands : une véritable catastrophe écologique. Le fier triangle qui affirmait le sexe féminin a laissé sa place à un toupet rédhibitoire du fait de sa totale absence d'évocation érotique. Entre les bords externes du toupet ridicule et les plis de l'aine, les lieux défrichés offrent le spectacle désolant de la peau d'un volatile plumé.

Voir aussi

axilisme

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This sociological approached was not judge acceptable.

I also highly recommand reading http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axilisme which is a very interesting article, over which we finally came to a difficult agreement.

[edit] Shaving for surgery

Article says "Patients' body hair was once shaved before surgery for reasons of hygiene; however, this turned out to be counter-productive".

Counter-productive how ? Jay 12:56, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)

from what I understand about this issue is that the act of shaving introduces too many contaminants which is counter to the original aim of removing sources of contaminants. And I've heard anecdotal evidence that shaving an area that undergoes surgery tends to be highly irritating to the skin after the surgery is over because of the elevated sensitivity after surgery. Still, I think some hospitals still practice this, just as some hospitals clean wounds with alcohol instead of saline (the last thing you need after being hit by a car). I'm no-where near an expert though. --Qirex 09:09, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Could you add a source that backs up the claim that shaving is counter productive, and that hospitals are moving away from it? The claim doesn't make much sense to me. I know that animals are still shaved in veterinary medicine. The doctors shaved hair off the applicable parts of me when I had an emergency appendectomy on October 30th, 2006 at Baylor in Dallas, TX (one of the best hospitals in the state). If it is true (which I am suspect), it definitely needs to be sourced. BMan1113VR 10:32, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reasons for Shaving in the Millitary

Article says: "Shaving a man's scalp hair has been used as a means of stripping them of their former identity. This is sometimes done at the beginning of military training, and is done as part of a process of trying to instill a new identity into the new soldier."

It was my understanding that this was done, especially in ancient times, to prevent the enemy from grabbing your hair during combat. Also, isn't it removed today to prevent the spread of lice? --69.173.172.148

Today, the fear of someone using a soldiers hair as a handle is probably pretty minimal, now that we try to shoot enemies from as far away as possible. Also, there are better ways to prevent the spread of lice than shaving people's heads. This also wouldn't explain why women's heads aren't shaved. Don't they get lice too? I think what the article says is pretty accurate. I could be wrong, but lice isn't a big problem in the modern military. — Frecklefoot | Talk 19:26, May 25, 2005 (UTC)

--Qirex 09:09, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Use of 'piety'

Under the heading "For religious reasons", the article reads, "To Sikhs, the maintenance and management of long hair is a manifestation of one's piety." I feel that the word 'piety' should not be used, because it could mean 'hypocrisy', or it could mean 'reverence and devotion to god' ([1]). I'd change it myself, but I don't know which meaning the original author intended convey. --Qirex 09:09, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] For religious reasons - Jains

I have never heard of a prohibiton on head-shaving in the Jain religious tradition. In fact, Paul Dundas' "The Jains" specifically mentions head-shaving as part of the initiation process for Jain monks:

"The hairpulling ceremony, which occurs at this time and is not witnessed by the lay community, signifies austerity and the abandonment of sexuality. This may involve the actual removal of the hair by tearing it out in handfuls as is often described in the old literature, although there is also ancient warranty for the custom sometimes found today of the head being shaved in advance with some small tufts being left which are removed in the course of initiation." (Dundas 156-157)

I moved the internal link for Jains into the appropriate paragraph.

- David

[edit] Removed crap

I've edited the section relating to pubic hair and sexual context of removal as it contained utter crap. Check the diff. Borderline racist comments about african women, and bizarre asertions that upper class women are more likely to depilate have no place here. 84.66.205.215 16:57, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] skinheads - political reasons for head shaving

should the fact that some members of far right political groups choose to shave their heads as an expression of their political beliefs be included?

82.6.79.160 14:09, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

If it is a truly a fact, (i.e. verifiable then yes. However I don't think it is true to state that it is an expression of their political beliefs; more accurately it is a sign of identification with a group or culture. It is a subtle but important difference. Anyway, if you can prove it, by all means include it. The Crow 20:19, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hairfacts

Hairfacts.com is entirely relevant to the topic. The website is not-for-profit and links to studies to back up claims. Hairfacts.com deals explicitly on the topic of hair removal (which is the title of this article). 87.75.129.218 20:27, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Does it cover anything that the current link doesn't? — Frecklefoot | Talk 15:03, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Since it's a site I own, I will recuse myself from adding it back in, but much of this article is taken directly from my "Methods of hair removal" article on hairfacts (donated by me with permission under GFDL). The WebMD link is a very basic overview that really doesn't cover all topics. Hairfacts is the top hair removal resource online and has been for many years (Google "hair removal"). It covers about three times as many methods as the WebMD article currently cited, and each of those methods in turn has numerous subpages devoted to clinical data, regulatory information, etc. It also discusses unproven and banned methods not discussed anywhere in the WebMD article. Hairfacts is cited in published medical literature [2] and by journalists. It was removed recently in the wake of an online detractor's ongoing campaign against me for a perceived slight. That editor has been banned a few times here for vandalism and linkspamming her hair removal practice. Unfortunately, most reliable information on hair removal is in registration-only medical articles. If editors decide to add hairfacts back in, you might also consider adding this about.com link: Hair Removal Methods. I'd also note that the WebMD and About.com articles serve more ads than hairfacts. Wikipedia allows external links that serve ads, but this article is frequently targeted by those promoting their own products and services. Again, I'll leave it to others to determine consensus on this. Jokestress 15:49, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Okay. — Frecklefoot | Talk 16:44, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Glad to see it back on the links page. 16:39, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Recent alterations to Advantages and Disadvantages

James Blond (talk · contribs) recently edited the Advantages and Disadvantages section, replacing the single paragraph:

There are advantages and disadvantages to many of these hair removal methods. Many are not permanent and many can cause medical problems or the costs are very high. Many of these methods are still in the testing phase and the methods have not been clinically proven. One should seek the advice of a doctor supervised facility when choosing a hair removal method.

with

There are advantages and disadvantages to many of these hair removal methods.

• Many are not permanent

• Many can cause medical problems

• The costs often are very high.

• Many of these methods are still in the testing phase and the methods have not been clinically proven. One should seek the advice of a doctor supervised facility when choosing a hair removal method.

• Especially when women have hair on arms, legs and eventually chin epilated, a disadvantage for others is, that they don't see (immediatly), that this is a hormonally rather or very masculine woman. That can lead to an attitude, or a choise, that instinctively would have been different, if the 'natural information', that has been removed, still would have been present.

Given the content of the last point, I reverted this edit on sight as vandalism. The user has subsequently not only reverted the reversion but been exceedingly insulting in the edit summary.

While the existing paragraph is not as good as one might like, I oppose this edit for the following reasons:

• It goes against wikipedia's manual of style (Bulleted lists) by unnecessarily being in list form.
• The points don't provide enough information within each to be useful.
• The grammar is poor.
• The final point is irrelevant to the article, is unencylopedic in nature and is derogatory and/or insulting to women. It also incorrectly implies that some women have no arm, leg or facial hair. With the exception of diseases and disorders that cause hair loss, all women have hair in these areas, it is just the shaft thickness and pigmentation levels that vary.

--AliceJMarkham 00:35, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

• Eventually the last point could be replaced by: "Removing hair in many cases has the disadvantage, that in this way natural information about one's measure of femininity and masculinity is removed, which can be confusing for others".

• What sources could support the statement, that (in principle) all women have hair on arms, legs and chin? James Blond 01:40, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

• Removing hair for the purpose of hiding growth patterns would be viewed as positive by many people, and the only way in which it is a measure of masculinity or femininity is in regards to social expectations. Conversion of the vellus hair (that every human has on their body, arms, legs and face) into terminal hair is a direct consequence of the sensitivity of the hair follicles to androgens (male hormones) and the level of androgens present. If you read the relevant wiki articles, you'll learn that all females have some level of androgen in their body from puberty onwards, and similarly, all males have estrogens (female hormones) in their body. The level of androgens does not directly imply "femininity" or "masculinity". The balance between androgens and estrogens effects the development of secondary sex characteristics, so a female with high androgen levels can be completely fertile and, by removing the body hair that is a consequence of that androgen level, will look just as "feminine" as a woman with lower androgen levels in the same way as a fertile and virile male who has a higher than normal estrogen level can develop gynecomastia. --AliceJMarkham 02:16, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

"...by removing the body hair that is a consequence of that androgen level, will look just as "feminine" as a woman with lower androgen levels...."

And there's the disadvantage; she looks just as "feminine", but isn't, and that will show in her behaviour. A vyril man, who thought he met a feminine partner, because there were no signs of the opposite, after a while will discover, that there's one more captain on the ship, whereas a feminine man, who prefers a female 'captain', due to epilation can't see, which woman is one. James Blond 13:27, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

• You appear to be under the impression that androgen levels and hair distribution are directly related to both physical and psychological/behavioural femininty. Clearly, if you can find an authorative, verifiable reference to show that this is true, you're welcome to add it. Given that I am unable to find any scientific basis for your assertion, I don't expect that you will find any such statement anywhere except perhaps a non-authorative, non-verifiable statement on white supremesist sites. Everything that I can find indicates that the definition of physical femininty is socially variable, and has varied all the way from body hair being desirable (eg all the way up to between the breasts being a sign of female fertility) to the current western social ideal of little or no body hair. --AliceJMarkham 09:23, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

The following extra disadvantage of removing (i.c. cutting) hair, might be added: "Removing (i.c. cutting) headhair in principle has an esthetical disadvantage. Man is shaped with hair as long as it grows. Reducing it's length, or removing it completely, as good as always has an unesthetical effect, the way the cutting off of a horses tail has. James Blond 01:13, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

• Nice theory, except that the entire statement is a value judgement. Some people find short hair more asthetically pleasing. Such a value judgement does not belong anywhere in wikipedia, which is built on verifiable facts. --AliceJMarkham 02:16, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

It might be encyclopedic anyway, to mention, that many feel, that it's a disadvantage of cutting headhair, that afterwards that head looks less esthetical. James Blond 01:58, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

• This type of view, and others (including the complete opposite view that short hair is more desirable), apply to various societies and religions and to sub-groups in some societies. I believe that such information, presented in a NPOV and including the various viewpoints (not just the long hair viewpoint as this would fail NPOV) would indeed be encyclopedic and would be a valid subject for a section within this article. It certainly isn't an advantage or a disadvantage but is a social consideration. --AliceJMarkham 09:23, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] External Links

I believe that the links in any category should be reasonable and informative and should have the material thats authentic and valuable. Like for example in the category I find that this link should be added as the external link Hair Removal GuideAs it has really informative material and easy to understand tips that can help people who look for easy hair removing methods. And what are the advantages and disadvantages of differnet hair removing methods. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.2.162.253 (talk) 09:43, August 26, 2007 (UTC)

• That article is no good. It's inaccurate and out of date. --AliceJMarkham 12:01, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Male body hair image

I am removing the picture of the man with his back and arms covered in thick hair. It is somewhat nauseating and adds nothing to the article. Jack324 (talk) 19:53, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

I put it right back in again per WP:CENSOR. It's not up to individuals to determine what's in the article based on their personal tastes. The image is informative and encyclopedic and belongs in the article, IMO. Just don't ask me to touch it! :) - Alison ^❤ 20:03, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Ha. I took that photo of a friend of mine. I'm sure he'll be pleased to have freaked somone out. Rockpocket 07:09, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Rocky, I always thought that was you!! :) - Alison ^❤ 07:13, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Can we at least add a caption stating that the guy is unusually hirsute? Not all guys are that hairy (me included). — Frecklefσσt | Talk 22:27, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

I edited the link provided to readers clicking on "hirsute," as it pointed toward "hirsutism" and seems better suited pointing toward "hair". The use in this case refers to the overall level of hair on this male, and seems better suited to point to an article that includes a general discussion of body hair, rather than lead users to an article dealing with a condition that "affects only women" [Citing hirsutism article as of 3/2/2008]. (Personally, I was also somewhat offended to have a picture depicting what is a perfectly normal hair growth for some males, such as myself, pointing to an article that spoke only of body hair in terms depicting it as unwanted, as is often the case in hirsutism). --Clowser (talk) 06:52, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Can we get pics reflecting a natural bush of pubes? 00:54, 23 February 2008 (UTC) mouse —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.78.20.197 (talk)