Talk:Haggerston

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[edit] Hope this is not seen as political

Almost forgot my mission, which is to add at least one pic to every Hackney district. Anyway, could not resist using this one. I have other Haggerston shots, which I will use later, but they are, so far, transport-related (like the East London Line-thang?). My impression is that everyone on the London project goes on and on and on about nothing except transport (as us Londoners do, quite excusable, but I'd like to redress the balance a bit.)

Please correct that caption if you want, anyone - it is not meant to have any deep implications but people take offence easily...

Tarquin Binary 01:19, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Moral obligation

Oops. The result of a few edits have had this entry zoom up the search engine results (Google page one). Fact is, no-one writes much about this area, anyone searching for it usually gets the Haggerston Pool Campaign again and again. So making it a priority to fill this out more thoroughly as my next Hackney task. Tarquin Binary 08:06, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Boundary

You were right about the Northern Boundary, I was looking at an old ward boundary but the new one runs along Middleton. I do not think many people South of the Canal recognise being in Haggerston though.

Beware of ward boundaries/names! I just don't think they really mean anything, whether old or new - they're just plain whimsical. But I'm all for recognising where people think they live. Usually I think it is the most important criterion.
But there is a problem with Haggerston, which is that most of the institutions labelled Haggerston (some of them disused, admittedly) are south of the canal. That is, Haggerston Pool, Library, Girls' School (incidentally, the only school Erno Goldfinger ever designed) and the Park (though this was on the site of Southwark gasworks, true.) I've thought about it, though, and I guess I could settle for Middleton Road. Haggerston has to take in some of that big stretch west of London Fields. Perhaps the central issue with the northern bit is that if you are a home owner in that area, you say you live in London Fields (unless you are Ian Sinclair). If you are in social housing, you say you live in Haggerston.
Part of the reason for the confusion is explained here: [1]
Haggerston was, of course, the northern part of Shoreditch parish, which became Shoreditch Met Borough, which is why Shoreditch has become a common term in people's minds. I would expect, however, that when the tube station opens that process will reverse itself. Anyway, I now have a better answer from that piece:
'the Shoreditch [Metropolitan Borough] boundary [1899] was rationalized to run along the canal south of De Beauvoir Town and farther east to follow Albion Road (from 1939 Albion Drive) and Brougham Road,...'
So maybe Albion Drive, it actually explains the perceptions that people I know round there have, and it avoids putting London Fields in Haggerston? (Must admit, an old Haggerston parish map would be helpful, before it was merged with Shoreditch parish. It strikes me, that given this muddle, an encyclopedia piece should try to explain it...) Tarquin Binary 12:44, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
Bit more... No - might as well carry on calling it Middleton Road - Haggerston Station location. Positioning the station there will, in fact, have the effect of moving Haggerston north over time. Dalston watch out. Tarquin Binary 12:54, 27 January 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Haggerston Gentrified?

Has Haggerston really become gentrified as this article suggests? And is it really the 'New Hoxton' or is that just a marketing man's dream? My (maybe superficial) impression is that the area is mostly dismal, derelict, poverty stricken ASBO land with some of London's most grotesque examples of high-rise public housing...Maybe 'Gated Communities' are a manifestation of an attempt by a minority social elite to ward off the presence of the majority of the 'great unwashed' in this area? This bespokes social division rather than gentrification. Colin4C 11:34, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Certainly, I think the 'New Hoxton' is quite barmy. Haggerston's not the paradise garden implied, but OTOH I think your view makes it more dismal than it actually is. Part of the problem is the perceived boundaries. They are somewhat fuzzy, particularly when the dread estate agents get involved. They are in hog heaven round here, because on a whim they can place properties in Haggerston, London Fields (which is indeed used as a district term, I have argued that it has now become a genuine district as a result) or - when in doubt - Shoreditch (which these days according to the EAs extends almost all the way to Dalston in the north and to the east as far as Mile End. Bastards.)
Anyway, this is just to say that in EAspeak, 'Haggerston' has traditionally meant 'the grotty bits', as opposed to 'London Fields'. But they are having to change this, because it is getting an eponymous East London Line station in 2010. Hence the spin. I do not disagree with your point with regard to social division and gated communities, but this sort of horror is being promoted throughout East London, not just in Haggerston, nonetheless it's described as 'gentrification' wherever it goes. Perhaps we should start to make a distinction here. Tarquin Binary 02:05, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
Addendum: Phew. Just had the horrifying idea I might have written that New Hoxton bit. I didn't, it seems. But I let it go when it was written, probably operating on the principle that some copy was better than none. This piece needs looking at, for sure. Tarquin Binary 02:11, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

I live in Haggerston - where are these "gated communities"? The phrase arises from the US where it means 12 feet high fences with armed patrols and 24 hour security guards at the main gate. Obviously you're not using it in this way but the idea that Haggerston has any more secure communities than other nearby parts of London seems false to me. There's an entry phone on the door of the flats here - does that make it a "gated community"? I'm confused.

The link didnt work - can someone tell me where Haggerston station will be exactly? Or a map location? Thanks. TheMathemagician 01:41, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

I didn't write that, I think the author is referring to the number of yards that have been converted to flats and have external, controlled gates. It does seem to be a prevalent local trend, but not, as you say related to the US style enclaves with security booths and armed guards.
At the end of Arbutus Street. See Haggerston railway station. Kbthompson 12:06, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for that. I still feel the tone of the article is somewhat gloomy and intimidating. I really dont believe there are any more remote-controlled gates in Haggerston than nearby although it probably leads London in newly built canal-side apartments! :) TheMathemagician (talk) 17:29, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Not a problem. I'd say dry, rather than gloomy, but articles need to maintain a tone appropriate to an encyclopaedia, that can lead to a dry style. Kbthompson (talk) 17:37, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Page move

I'm a bit confused, all references at Google are to this place. Google references a Haggerston Castle in Northumbria - why is Haggerston moved? Where is the confusion between the two places that requires a disamb page for an article that doesn't exist and appears not to need to exist? Other places in London are dismb'd by naming place, London - although I think place, borough would be less confusing. Why is this the only place named place, Greater London? The propensity for changing place names from their primary usage is frankly baffling. Kbthompson 12:06, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

Comment I have now requested that this page be moved back to its natural name. As I said (above), google only produces references to Haggerston Castle in Northumbria and no one has replied to this request for the reason for the original move. The original move did not redirect to a disamb page, and now it does, all references (50 odd) to this page have been redirected to a disambiguation. In addition references have been lost to the historic Haggerston Parliamentary constituency, which is the only other use of the term. There is no article on Haggerston in Northumbria.

I am shocked that this matter has not preceded with more care. see Kbthompson (talk) 11:28, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
More comment:- I just looked at Google Maps (satellite), the putative otheruse seems to be a holiday camp in Berwick-on-Tweed, not even a settlement. There is clearly no need for a disambiguation page, this is clearly the prime use. Kbthompson (talk) 14:14, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Support, move to Haggerston and add a link to the disambiguation page on top. feydey (talk) 18:48, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
Comment there's nothing to disambiguate - there's no article there. That's what I find puzzling. Kbthompson (talk) 18:59, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
I expanded the disambig page. feydey (talk) 22:39, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
Link on article page to disambiguation now seems a lot more reasonable, thanks. Kbthompson (talk) 23:10, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
I support the move TheMathemagician (talk) 22:52, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
I also support a move back. Should not have been amended in the first place. MRSC • Talk 20:45, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

MRSC • Talk 20:45, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Comment I think there's a fairly clear consensus for restoring the original setup, with a dismb header on the page. If there are no objections I'll give it two more days, then move this page, and try to fix some of the double redirects that are knocking around, Thanks everyone. Kbthompson (talk) 01:50, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

PAGE MOVED per discussion above. -GTBacchus(talk) 00:48, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for that. Kbthompson (talk) 00:50, 24 November 2007 (UTC)