Talk:Hadassah medical convoy massacre

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Yuber, why was the page moved? And even worse, moved without a post to talk? This is generally referred to as a massacre, just as Deir Yassin is. It certainly is not usually referred to as an "incident." Please give some justification before renaming pages. Some examples of the way the word massacre is used in context:

  • " A "take no prisoners" massacre by Arab guerrillas of a convoy of medical personnel to Hadassah Hospital on Mount Scopus, that included Jewish medical personnel, occurred on the 13th in Sheikh Jerakh near Mt. Scopus" From the Red Cross Report on Deir Yeissen
  • "The massacre of 77 members of a Hadassah medical convoy by Palestinian Arabs..." Encyclopedia Britannica
  • During Israel's 1948 War of Independence, Mount Scopus was cut off from the rest of Jerusalem, and convoys were organized to transport the medical staff safely past Arab troops. That April, a convoy was ambushed and 78 doctors and nurses killed in the worst massacre in Israeli history. The hospital closed and didn't reopen until the mid '70s. St. Petersburgh Times
  • ...there are many others, on both pro-Israel and pro-Palestinian sites, and not a single reference I can find to an "incident"?

Please do not move pages without discussion in the future. Goodoldpolonius2 01:12, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Ah, I see from the debate around Qana Incident that this was probably a disruption to make a point. Don't do that, please, Yuber - it starts edit wars that ripple through Wikipedia, it wastes my and other editors' time, and there is no linkage between these two topics. --Goodoldpolonius2 15:36, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

If we call this a response for Deir Yassin, then we should call every single asttack a response for what happened immedietly before, this is a ridiculous proposition.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 01:59, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

On the contrary. There is essential unanimity among historians that the exceptional severity of the attack, and maybe the attack itself, was largely due to the Deir Yassin massacre which occured only a few days before had every Arab (and quite a few Jews) inflamed with anger. Eye-witnesses reported the attackers crying out "Deir Yassin". The wording that you removed, which I will restore, only noted the temporal proximity and doesn't suggest any causal connection even though there was one. In my opinion, that is a compromise too far in the wrong direction but I'll accept it. --Zero 09:24, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Deir Yassin reference, redux

I've changed the reference to the "Battle of Deir Yassin" to the "battle and massacre of Deir Yassin". I believe this should keep both sides equally happy (or unhappy). A necessary compromise, imo. Cgingold 19:17, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Event ?

I removed the word rumors because it is reffering to Deir Yasin making it sound as if it were a rumor and in general is read and understood differently by people. Now their were rumors that it was exaggerated with rape claims and higher death tolls at the time, but the fact is that it did happen and news of it happening was not false. The convoys were being attacked lightly before the massacre at Deir Yasin but became horrific on the day of the Haddas massacare clearly in response to what happened. The article also needs some minor cleaning as it has many unsourced claims. I do have some material on the massacre and will help with the sourcing and clean up of unverifiable facts. Angry Ayrab 08:30, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

What did happen for sure was the battle. The massacre itself is disputed. Writing here "massacre" and not expanding on it suggests that it's an absolute fact, and it provides a sort of justification. Rumors might hint the opposite - that it for sure never happened, which you can also claim to be POV. I suggest using "Battle of Deir Yassin" which also directs to the same article then, or alternatively to add the word "disputed" before the "deir yassen massacre" in this article. what do you think. Amoruso 11:49, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

First of all the opening paragrpah is wrong: It is not an "evenet" it is a warcrime massacre of medical personal.

second, Haddas convoy was not attack because of Deir Yassin. The attacks on the hospital strted long before Deir yassin (see http://www.hadassah.org/education/content/StudyGuides/Convoy_ITAD.pdf . Zeq 10:31, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

it no longer says event which is indeed an unfitting term like you said. the link I see was added.
I think There doesn't seem to be any explanation here for the NPOV tag. Correct me if I'm wrong Zeq. so if it's not explained it should be removed. Amoruso 23:10, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
The contemporary reports in the Palestine Post are available online to anyone who cares to read them. They report British rescue attempts beginning early that morning. One was fired upon by the convoy. --Ian Pitchford 07:42, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
I still don't understand what you're talking about. If something bothers you, correct it and remove the tag. Amoruso 07:52, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Question re smuggling of arms

I distinctly recall being taught when I was young (back in the mid-1960s) that Jewish forces had resorted to smuggling arms inside of ambulances (if I recall correctly, during the siege of Jerusalem). This information was imparted rather proudly, as evidence of their resourcefulness in the face of adversity. I haven't made an exhaustive search to document and confirm this, but I've been struck by it's omission from material that I've seen. Does anybody have solid information (either verifying or refuting) on this issue? And if it was taking place, did the Arab forces know about it, and if so, was it possibly a factor in this particular event? Thanks in advance for any useful replies on these questions. Cgingold 19:31, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV

seems very pro israel and particularly anti british, have balanced it a little but needs more work. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.26.104.87 (talk) 01:48, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

It is not anti-British at all. It extolls the heroism of Jack Churchill, who was very British, as far as I can see.--Gilabrand (talk) 07:34, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Potential useful reference

Victims of Hadassah massacre to be memorialized, April 7, 2008, taken from this attempt to start a new article on this topic. The new article, Hadassah Massacre was a stub and now redirect here. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 03:03, 9 April 2008 (UTC)