Talk:H. H. Holmes

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Contents 1 Plagaiarism 2 Facts 3 No one noticed 4 reply to above 5 Execution 6 More sources. 7 Rename? 8 Copyright violation / plagiarism 9 Philadelphia? 10 Grew up in a poor family? 11 The PO 12 possible vandalism

[edit] Plagaiarism

I just finished reading the book "The Devil in the White City". The last paragraph of the "Later Life and Arrest" section is directly plagairized from this book, so someone should quote it or reference it or something.

[edit] Facts

I'm not sure, but I think some of your facts may be wrong. Word had it that they had already pinned a number of murders on Mudgett before the place had burned down (he was in police custody at the time). They had discovered the bones of a former business partner, his business partner's three children and a number of other victims before the house burned to the ground. There is an interesting link here: http://www.prairieghosts.com/holmes_a.html Apparently he used acids to rid himself of his victims as well. Theres a rare photo of the murder castle on this site as well. Additionally, there was some rumour that he not only swindled but murdered the pharmacist. This was mostly because he just took over the pharmacy saying the owner has 'moved out west'. Apparently, police didnt investigate at the time because he was an upstanding citizen. The last thing is the victims. Many were employees also. He would hire women as secretaries (making sure to have them not tell anyone where they are going) and kill them.

I found that too when i read the end of the book about 5 minutes ago.. I'd have thought the people who operate this website, being so obsessed with copyright laws (there's about 8 copyright warnings on the page i'm writing on right now!) would at least check their sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.208.7.225 (talk) 21:29, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Read Harold Schechter's "Depraved" for a indepth bio on Holmes. He tried to burn down the Castle to collect the insurance (he succeed only in burning down the top floor; the Castle was burned to ground by persons unknown after Holmes had been arrested for murder in Philadelphia) and fled Chicago to avoid creditors. It's astonishing to realize how many people he swindled or tried to swindle. The Civilized Worm (talk) 16:40, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] No one noticed

Ehm, how come someone can kill up to 100 people at his hotel, with no one ever noticing what is going on or missing anyone from the persons killed? And then even selling dead bodies to medical schools with not a single person asking where all those corpses come from? I find this story too obscure right now to believe it. --Abdull 23:12, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

It all has to do with the time frame, really. The bodies at least are easy enough to understand, as there were likely no laws requiring documentation of where cadavers had come from. The numbers in the hundreds may just be fabrications or "healthy" estimates. As investigators documented, the remains were in variou states of decomposition, and what might have been one body's remains was actually several, or vice versa. Cybertooth85 01:56, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Do you suppose he's still checking this article after posting that item 17 months ago? In any case, he's assuming modern-day scrutiny. It was much easier to get away with things in those days, as there was much less national communication. He needs to read Devil in the White City for a better understanding of what Chicago was like in 1893. Wahkeenah 02:44, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] reply to above

Holmes erected the hotel for the purpose of housing tourists during the 1893 world's fair. I recall reading that in addition to killing his own staff and other 'local Chicagoans', that he'd take the lives of guests who were staying in his hotel. If there are people who aren't from Chicago that go missing during a World's Fair over a hundred years ago, are the authorities really going to know who is missing? This is obviously an era before mass communication so I don't understand why you find it so far-fetched. If you want to look more into the subject there is plenty of reading material out there (and posted on the 'Holmes' page here) -Two star hotel

[edit] Execution

From the current Wikipedia article: "... Holmes' neck did not snap immediately; he instead died slowly and painfully of strangulation over the course of about 15 minutes."

From the Philadelphia Weekly article: " 'Death was indeed merciful to the man who in his life had shown so little mercy,' read the Inquirer's account published on the same day. 'For a few minutes there was a faint beating of the pulse, but the dying man felt no pain. With the springing of the trap, his neck had been broken."

201.1.187.114 05:25, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] More sources.

Found an entry on Crimelibrary.com regarding Holmes: [[1]]

Enjoy :)

Fred26 17:55, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rename?

His alias was Harry Howard Holmes, according to [2] - so unless there are sources to say the H. H. was more common, perhaps we should rename the article (it took me ages to find it searching for the full name version)?Malick78 14:46, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Copyright violation / plagiarism

The section about strange things happening after his death (and him being the devil) is taken straight from The Devil in the White City by Erik Larson, page 387. I removed it. The rest of the page ought to be checked. —MICLER (Talk) 00:49, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Philadelphia?

Why was he executed in Philadelphia? The article goes into a good amount of detail up until his death until suddenly he's getting hung in Philadelphia. Was it simply where he was caught and tried? Who knows!? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.65.19.54 (talk) 10:14, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Holmes was tried and executed for the murder of his partner in some insurance scams. The murder happened in Philadelphia, hence the reason why the trial and execution happened there. He was not charged with any of the other murders he was believed to have committed. The Civilized Worm (talk) 16:24, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Grew up in a poor family?

Unless I misunderstood the program on NPR this morning, they said he grew up in a wealthy family. Also, other sources on the web say he grew up in a prominent family. I think this Wikipedia article needs some edits. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.177.34.3 (talk) 16:58, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The PO

Is the Post Office 611 W 63rd St, Chicago, IL 60621-2011? -- Toytoy (talk) 16:15, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

No - Holmes' hotel was closer to Jackson Park. Actually walking distance to the Worlds Fair grounds. 63rd St. train stop, according to the book "Devil in the White City" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.166.26.23 (talk) 03:01, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] possible vandalism

"and even a stretching rack to create a race of "giants"."

Is this for real? If so, does it warrant at least a sentence to itself. Nothing else in the article explains a predilection for creating giants. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.126.48.126 (talk) 05:19, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm just guessing, but I would imagine this notion derives from the yellow journalism of the day.24.148.1.17 (talk) 21:53, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

This story comes from either one articles written on the case at the time it happened or from Holmes' own confession, I forget which. Holmes was a notorious liar and his own confession was sensational (he claimed to be possessed by the devil and confessed to murders of people who weren't even dead). The story about trying to create giants does pop up in a lot of literature on Holmes, so its not a case of vandalism here. The Civilized Worm (talk) 16:31, 29 April 2008 (UTC)