Talk:Gyros

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[edit] Ingredients in US gyros

Gyros prepared with minced meat in the US? Not in my experience in getting them. Does anyone else's experience contradict the article? 128.194.21.25 22:08, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the minced meat kind is by far the most common in my experience in the Boston area. It is hard to find the layers-of-sliced-meat kind.--Macrakis 23:22, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Agree, My experience in Boston and elsewhere in the US is that flattened strips of minced spiced lamb is the most common. Most of it purchased as IQF strips.

http://www.kronosproducts.com/pages/prod_portion.htm Klonimus 07:02, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

Only now looked at that link. Good God, what you people have to put up with. When is the revolution? Palmiro | Talk 19:32, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

I've never seen a gyro made with ground beef. And I'm somewhat of a gyro conosseiur.

[edit] Gyros and Souvlaki in Australia

In Australia, it's always called Souvlaki, and almost always served with lamb, or sometimes chicken. Never pork or beef. It comes with tomato, onion and lettuce, some thick garlic sauce (yogurt?) and finished off with some lemon juice. Many people ask for it without onion/garlic/whatever. Never have I seen it with French Fries. Due to the high greek population in Australia (especially Melbourne), Souvlaki is very well known and a very common fast food. döner kebab, and shawarma are pretty rare, although increasingly common due to recent increased migration from the Middle East. commking

Are you sure you're talking about the same thing? Souvlaki = shish kebab = shashlik = spiedini means little cubes of meat (often also tomatoes and onion) cooked on a skewer; usually served in pita etc., just like gyro = döner kebab = shawarma. --Macrakis 20:33, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Gyros refers to how the meat is cooked, but as I said in Australia it is served as Souvlaki. Souvlaki is not the same thing as a kebab, shaslik or shawarma. Souvlaki is a Greek variant of the same thing, but distinctly different. The bread is different as is the way the meat is prepared. The Arab, Persian and Turkish style kebabs have their own distinct style of meat, cooking, presentaion and identity. Are you saying they are really the same thing? Tell that to a Greek/Turk/Arab/Iranian/Whatever and see what response you get! (and I would agree with them)commking 1 May 2005
In Australia it isn't always called Souvlaki, that is just one of the varieties of this style of dish available here. Yiros is the common name in Adelaide (although they also have souvlaki), and Perth has mostly kebab's with the odd showing of souvlaki or yiros. Kebab seems to be the most common Australian term for this dish, whose style will vary depending on what greasy late-nite spot you get it from. Yiros is usually lamb, sometimes chicken and yes, sometimes beef, and appears to be Lebanese in origin. It is nothing like doner kebab which is just horrendous, and it isn't the anything like any gyros i've ever had either (thankfully!). It is very similar to Souvlaki, the meat is sliced relatively thinly, then stacked and cooked on a vertical skewer - but it is prepared differently. Yiros is marinated and prepared with more spices (i.e. it tastes better). It is served the same - garlic sauce (not so bland/yogurt based - that is more Greek - Tzatziki), tomato, lettuce, maybe chilli sauce, maybe hummus and tubouli wrapped in a (uncut) heated pita. Doner kebab is common in Sydney - but they tend to call souvlaki and yiros 'kebabs' too, as does Perth. The Greek-style kebab/yiros/souvlaki tends to have a more greasy taste with blander sauces, whereas a good hot fresh Lebanese yiros has a cleaner and richer flavour. The US (Boston) 'gyro' is somewhat lacking in comparison to both, and they dont know how to wrap it properly either (appears to be more Israeli in origin?).
Just a note, someone can clean this up, but the writer above claims Donna/Donner Kebabs use minced meat and it seems he is implying this is the case in NSW. However, I have never seen this done at any kebab shop, from the stylish fast food franchise 'Ali Babars' in the city to the family owned traditional shops in Sydney's lebanese heartlands to the kebab stalls at the Easter Show (state fair), I've never seen mince, only the sliced meat. The same goes for the few kebabs I've eaten in Brisbane. <<comment by anonymous user -- moved from main page to Talk page>>

This is no problem: they are totally different things, prepared, served, and eaten diffeently.

[edit] Gyros and souvlaki in Greece

In Athens it is not called "pita gyros", it is called "souvlaki". "Souvlaki" is called "kalamaki" instead. There is a strong debate between ppl from Athens and ppl from Thessaloniki about the "right" name of them, resulting in laughing at anyone that asks it using the opposite word. Moreover in Athens, they use "souvlaki" for the standard filling, whilst "pita me gyro" means that the person is going to choose the filling immediately after.

[edit] Proposed merge

Gyro, döner kebab, and shwarma are really the same food under different names, with regional/national variants. Shouldn't these three pages be unified?--Macrakis 04:00, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I have made some comments on this issue at Talk:Shawarma. Perhaps we can discuss the ins and outs of it there. Palmiro | Talk 10:12, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
I don't see why gyro shouldn't have its own article. It has become a popular standard of American cuisine, not to mention in its home of Greece and other parts of Europe. If the articles were merged, what would the new title be? 300 million English-speaking Americans generally know what a gyro is, but have never heard of a döner kebab or shwarma. If the article is unified, it should probably have the title "gyro", although I think separate articles are warranted. Uris 01:38, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
I doubt that 300m English-speaking Americans know what a gyro is. But I would guess that you're right that the name "gyros" is more common in the US than "doner" or "shawarma". However, though this is an English-language Wikipedia, it is not a US Wikipedia. And I think it would be more contentious to unify under gyro or shawarma than doner kebab. --Macrakis 18:25, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

I say no to the merge. Gyros are very different from Doner Kebabs. They both use the same meat but the toppings are different. A traditional Kebab in Ireland would have chili sauce and coleslaw as the topping. In America when you make an Gyro you get fresh tomatos, letuce and a cucumber sauce. Totally different experiences in cusine.

I certainly agree that there are many different things under these names. However, the variants are not consistently connected to the names. For example, I see that "kebab" in Ireland means "doner kebab", whereas elsewhere it may mean "shish kebab". The chili sauce and coleslaw on your "traditional" (traditional???) Irish kebab is unknown in other parts of the world (under any name). --Macrakis 02:53, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
The traditional Irish kebab was brought to the island in the 9th century by Celtic monks returning after a failed mission to the Barbary coast. Although they were unsuccessful in proselytising the obstreperous natives, the local sovereign, impressed by the piety and learning of the would-be missionaries, made them a present of a doner spike and grill, a chili plant and some coleslaw seeds. Unfortunately, as the holy men made their way back through the choppy waters of the Bay of Biscay in their little currach, the heavy contraption unbalanced their craft. The martyr Saint Toirdealbhach of Darndál managed to recover it before it sank into the turbulent sea but himself drowned in the effort. He is commemorated between 2.30 and 4.00am every Saturday night in Dame Street, central Dublin. Palmiro | Talk 18:44, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
How could they have chillis in the 9th Century? It's a New World plant. --Mgreenbe 20:16, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
Typical. Try to help people out with some information around here and you always run into some bloody pedant. Palmiro | Talk 20:38, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
If I were a pedant, I would ask what coleslaw seeds are. :) --Mgreenbe 21:27, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
Do you think this is a laughing matter? Next you will be claiming that falafel is not a national dish of Ireland. I strongly suspect that this is all a chauvinistic project aimed at disproving the cultural specificity of the Irish nation.
And while I'm on the subject, does it strike anyone else as ludicrous that the article on doner kebab should, in the very first line, give the name of the dish in Turkish (Turkish?) and not in Irish (dónaer ceibeab)? Palmiro | Talk 17:52, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Unless we want to call the entry "Ethnic rotisserie meat and bread dishes" and include gyros, tacos al pastor, doner kebab, and shwarma, I think we should just keep separate entries and mention similarities.--Wasabe3543 23:15, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

So do you propose then to have Wikipedia articles for Kebab (Dublin), Gyros (New York), Gyros (Athens), Doner (Athens) (which is the same thing as Gyros (Athens)), Doner kebab (Berlin), Doner kebab (Boston), etc., etc.? Because 'gyros' doesn't mean the same thing everywhere, nor does doner. The basic problem here is that there is no standardization of the names. And "Ethnic rotisseries meat and bread dishes" gets it wrong in three ways: 1) it is specifically the vertical rotisserie that is in question here; 2) it is not meat in general, but either sliced (the classic) or minced/ground (the ersatz) meat; 3) the bread is optional -- the dish can be served on a dinner plate. --Macrakis 03:12, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't see any way why the three articles should be combined. Simply because they contain similiar indgreidents, each food has its own unique history that makes it its own noteworthy item. There's no point having them all under the same heading when they are different topics, even if they are similiar. Let's just note the similarity in the article, put links, take off the proposed merger tag, and let it be. Terry 00:08, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pronounciation: Gyro? or Hero?

A pronounciation section should be added to the article.

In many places, it is pronounced like the word "Hero" (i.e., Philadelphia).

In other places, it is pronounced "Gyro", like the first part of the word "Gyroscope" (i.e., New Brunswick, NJ)

Perhaps a geographical breakdown would be best.

72.82.162.103 06:01, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

both are wrong, it is properly pronouced 'Ye'ro... there is a pronounciation key in the article... - Adolphus79 06:03, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
Well, in Greek it is certainly pronounced [ˈʝiɾos], however [ʝi] is hard for English-speakers to pronounce -- about as close as you can get using English sounds is ['jiːɹəʊ] ("year" + "oh"). But the spelling "gy" is hard to reconcile with that pronunciaton, so in English it is often pronounced according to its spelling, namely ['dʒaɪɹəʊ] as in gyroscope. If ['hiːɹəʊ] is indeed the current Philadelphia pronunciation, I predict that either the spelling will change to reflect the pronunciation or vice versa. Anyway, we're not here to determine the "proper" pronunciation, but to report the facts on the ground. --Macrakis 21:56, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
Certainly in Australia it is always used in the plural and spelled yiros or yeeros pronounced ['jiːɹos]. The US pronunciation ['dʒaɪɹəʊ] is what linguists call a "spelling pronunciation". Anyhow, all of this complexity points to keeping the articles separate, rather than combining them into one gargantuan or unwieldy whole.WikiLambo 18:42, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
I live in the US, but have never heard gyros pronounced as in "Gryoscope"; it's always jiros. | AndonicO Talk | Sign Here 21:11, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
California resident. Everyone I know and myself have unsurely called them Gyros as in Gyroscope, but have heard of and been confused by Euro and Hero as alternatives. More importantly, though, why isn't this a section in the entry? It is relevant, given the confusion and variation (in America at least), and some people (like myself) come to Wikipedia to find answers to this type of question. (Note: fancy, proper, off-keyboard pronunciation guides are of absolutely no use to the common person who is curious.) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.181.230.9 (talk) 05:58, 26 February 2007 (UTC).
Someone had deleted the section on pronunciation in Gyros#Name. I've restored it. Yes, it uses IPA symbols, which are the WP standard for several reasons: 1) it is hard to represent some pronunciations unambiguously using informal systems; 2) some sounds don't exist in English; 3) WP is intended for people who don't speak English as a native language as well as English speakers. In particular, there's no way to write the Greek pronunciation ['ʝiros] using the YEE-ross system, because none of the sounds ʝ, i, or o can be represented in English writing; as for the English pronunciations, I suppose you could write [ˈdʒaɪɹəʊ(z)] as JIE-row(z) ("ie" as in "pie", not "hoagie"; "row" as in a boat, not as in an argument) and [ˈjiːɹəʊ(z)] as YEE-row(z) ("row" as in a boat, not as in an argument), but those extra explanations are annoying.... --Macrakis 14:25, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

In Detroit or Chicago it's universally pronounced as "hyeer-ohs," which is much closer to the Greek. But in my experience living in NYC or California it seems to almost always be said "jie-ro" (as in "gyroscope"). Strangely, this is even true in Greek neighborhoods in NYC. So the pronunciation paragraph in the U.S. section as currently written seems more or less correct to me. 74.72.216.115 18:09, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

In Seattle anybody connected with Greek culture or who wants to appear sophisticated says "yiro" (year-o). "jie-ros" sounds like an obnoxious Americanism. What's more interesting is how the "s" succumbs to English plural rules. "I'll have a yiro"; "I'll have two yiroz". Or for those who pronounce the "s" in the singular: "I'll have a jiros"; I"ll have two jiroz". "Souvlaki" in Greek restaurants and festivals means the meat as a dinner *without* the pita (or with it on the side). Arab restaurants generally call it gyros, though some use shawarma or variations, The Mediterranean Express on Broadway & Pike has separate menu items for "gyros", "shawarma", "shish kebab", "shish tawook", etc. I have never heard of french fries in a gyros. Sluggoster 18:02, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Interesting! I came to the discussion page thinking it was an error in the article, that no one seriously pronounces it "jie-roes," but it looks like people do! I always thought people only used "jie-roes" as a joke (like saying "burr-eye-toe" or "fah-jie-tah" at a Mexican restaurant), or maybe the first time they ever walked into a Greek restauraunt, before they were corrected by the proprietor. I knew dropping the terminal "s" was pretty prevalent when asking for a single one, but never would have guessed whole regions pronounced it "jie-roes." What a trip! 76.208.120.38 (talk) 03:44, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Image shows Döner kebab!!!

Sorry, but the image of that article

This is Döner kebab, not Gyros!!! --217.250.3.12 09:09, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

shows Döner kebab!!! Read the image description page!!! --217.250.3.12 09:09, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The lot (in Australia)

This bit sounds odd: the term 'the lot' usually means all the previously mentioned fillings plus cheese . The lot was a common term for hamburgers, where one might specifiy one or two ingredients, or the lot. I haven't heard this used for gyros were there are so few ingredients, and where you'd rarely choose to not have one, so there doesn't seem to be a need for a term to cover all ingredients, because really that is the norm and the only way gyros are served. As for the claim about cheese in a gyros, well I've never seen that in Melb or Sydney, and I've eaten plenty of gyros over the years. (Most of those guys running those gyros shops would probably try to put you on the spit if you asked for grated cheddar cheese on your gyros!!!) Asa01 08:27, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gyros is not called doner in Greece

Gyros is not called doner kebab in Greece. It's called by its Greek name of gyros. --85.75.233.92 02:02, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

You are mistaken. The name ντονέρ used to be very common; it is less common now. Ask an older person. If I remember correctly, it is also listed in the Babiniotis dictionary. --Macrakis 12:59, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
Yep, Babiniotis has it alright. Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:58, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
I checked last night, ντονέρ is also in the Andriotis dictionary. --Macrakis 20:44, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Meat for Gyros in Greece

In my entiere life i never got gyros in greece not made out of pork. Is there anybody who's really sure that that it is common to use beef or lamb too? Otherwise i am recommending to change this part of the article. --NackteElfe 04:13, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Pork is by and large the most common ingredient, but I've come across more than a few places that sell γύρος made from chicken (beef as well, although that is rarer). Chicken gyros fell somewhat out of fashion over the avian flu scare, but it seems to be making a comeback these days. There are even gyradika that deal in chicken gyros exclusively (such as a rather well known shop in Kalamata. Porfyrios 11:01, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I am sure that beef or lamb (more so lamb) is common. I am of Greek heritage, and have a lot of traditional Greek family. Parts of my family are even in the Greek resturant business. The traditional gyro meat (and in my opinion best tasting) is made from lamb. The only trouble is that this is typically more expensive than other forms of gyro, so not every place will carry it. -- Laokoon 18:09, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gyros and donair in Canada

The current statement about gyros being sold in Canada as donair is inaccurate. Gyros are sold as gyros in Montreal, Toronto and Ottawa. There is one regional variation in Montreal, where the Kojax chain of greek fast food joints spells it yero.

Here are some online menus for verification: [1] for Toronto, [2] for Montreal, [3] for the yero variant spelling in Montreal and [4] for Ottawa (this menu also has a donair seems to be the same meat but with different toppings and sauce).

Donairs are commonly found in the Maritimes, especially Halifax, served with a locally derived sauce that is quite different from tzatziki. See Donair#Canada.

I've also seen donairs advertised frequently in Vancouver, although I've never been to a Greek fast-food joint there. This may be another regional thing.

--Bigheadjer 03:36, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge

Shouldn't souvlaki be merged into this article, as it is what Athenians call them? Also, that picture doesn't display gyros well; it doesn't even have pita! The one in souvlaki should be used as the top picture if the two articles are merged. | AndonicO Talk | Sign Here 23:32, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

(comment moved by AndonicO) indispeakable! NEVER SHOULD IT BE MERGED! IT IS LIKE MERGING APPLES AND ORANGES

Doesn't the lead say they are the same, only that the Athenians call them that? | AndonicO Talk · Sign Here 00:39, 19 January 2007 (UTC)


It shouldn't because Athenians do not call gyros souvlaki or souvlaki gyros. In fact I think this part should be edited out. When what the Athenians call souvlaki has gyros it's a gyros souvlaki, when it has chicken it's a chicken souvlaki and so on and so forth (not only Athenians use this naming convention but then the " people in Southern Greece is too general). Gyros doesn't have to come with pieces of pita by the way.Ela de

Ok, I'll remove the merge then. Thank you for explaining. | AndonicO Talk · Sign Here 13:23, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Misinformation

"Due to a large Turkish population in Germany, Gyros is a well known term for either chicken, pork, or lamb doner meat..." That is absolutely wrong! In Germany Gyros is known as typical Greek food and it's only made of pork! Döner is Turkish, Gyros is Greek! So this misinformation was deleted. --80.133.189.160 15:22, 8 September 2007 (UTC)