Talk:Gyromitra esculenta

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[edit] Better safe

Unfortunately, I don't have a reference... but I remember a speaker at a talk on wild mushrooms saying that there HAVE been cases of fatal toxicity, apparently associated with eating "properly prepared" Gyromitria spp. It seems some people can eat them for years with no ill effects, and others will eventually die after eating them several times. Doesn't seem worth the risk to me. I am attempting to contact the speaker to ask him to edit the Wiki. In either case, would someone please include a citation for the assertation that "all toxicities have been associated with eating raw Gyromitria."

PS - dead right on the "false morel." These can refer to Verpa bohimica or any of at least 3 Gyromitria species: G. esculenta, G. gigas, and G. infula. Revdrace (talk) 16:08, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Clarifications needed

This is probably a taxonomical issue, but I've seen 'false morel' refer to more than just one species of Gyromitra, not just the Esculenta. This is mentioned in passing in the lower portion of the article, but for most fungi, each gets a separate entry. Should there be a separate entry for each Gyromitra (probably) and then turn False Morel into a listing of all false morels?

Also, it's a pretty big claim to say that all 'false morels' (again, which false morels?) have been positively proven to contain toxins without actually citing a source. I fully agree that eating false morels is a bad idea, but it should probably be cited. --George Dorn 9/21/2006

[edit] Dangerous info here

Having done a pretty extensive search on the web, it appears that Gyromitra species in particular are NOT edible, although people may not exhibit poisoning symptoms for years. Then they may suddenly keel over dead. The page as it stands is not exactly wrong, but gives the impression that gyromitras are edible and choice, which my reading indicates is not true. In particular, the statement about it being individual sensitivity rather than toxin levels in individual mushrooms is unsubstantiated. What I am finding indicates that scientists are unsure what factor or factors cause this variability, and most sites that include scientific or medical research caution against eating G. species, terming them poisonous. I will change this entry to reflect this if no evidence is forthcoming. Deirdre 23:14, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I've eaten alot of these when I grew up in the northen part of sweden. We always sun drieded them before eating them though. Wouldn't that take care of the poison? - ThrBigD

Not from what I've read. You're eating a substance that turns into rocket fuel after you ingest it. Sun drying may remove some of the toxin, as does cooking, but apparently not all, and it's clearly a carcinogen, among other things. I gather that in some places now in Scandinavia they are starting to warn against eating Gyromitras. It's a hard one to determine, because the results for human beings are so variable. Some people have died of causes that are clearly traceable to the mushroom, but what of others dying of cancer, or organ failure late in life? That's not clearly connected, and it may or may not be due to the mushrooms. I'm of the more cautious persuasion when it comes to mushrooms. Deirdre 01:04, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

maybe the article should at least mention that people who eat it make efforts to remove the toxins before consumtions. In finland they even sell a "safe" version that is canned, which have been prepared in such a way that the toxins are removed. see link http://www.dlc.fi/~marianna/gourmet/morel.htm

I've eaten quite a few of these growing up, and my 70+ year old grandfather and the rest of my mom's family have eaten them all his life (northern michigan). He refers to the mushroom as beefsteak. They soak the mushrooms (both beefsteak and true morels) in salt water to remove bugs and then dry them or freeze them. Typically, they use them in gravy, if I remember right. I don't know whether it's the growing environment, preparation, or some cooking process that is making them safe. I later learned that the beefsteaks were actually coniferous false morels and considered poisonous. So they may be safe in some circumstances, but it's not worth the risk - there are plenty of other safe, tasty mushrooms out there. (I haven't eaten any as an adult, so I can't really comment on the flavor.)

False morels are eaten quite often in Finland, but we ALWAYS parboil them. It's pure foolishness to eat them without parboiling twice in a ventilated room, in _different_ batches of water. You don't just cook them, you boil them and _throw away_ the water. <edit: The article's been rewritten since my comment above, so I removed my criticism concerning the original version.>

--- False morel is the fugu of the Finnish kitchen. I'm a Finn, and we consider them as the most culinary of all mushrooms sans porcinis. Like fugu, the Japanese blowfish, it requires thorough preparation. As mentioned above, the mushroom must ALWAYS be parboiled - preferably twice, and the water to be thrown away. The gyromitrine breaks into hydrazine in the metabolism, and hydrazine is commonly used as oxidizer (does the name C-Stoff or Walther engine ring the bell?), and it decomposes the blood, liver and kidney cells. Fortunately, gyromitrine is both water-soluble and volatile, and can be removed.

Parboiling means heating the mushrooms in the water until the water boils, and then throwing the water away. As unit operation in chemical engineering, it is the same as leaching. Do it at least twice with different batches of water.

Today the Finnish Ailments Bureau suggest the false morels are NOT to be dried, jerked or freeze-dried. While this is a traditional way on making false morels edible, it is no more suggested, as some of the gyromitrine may still remain in the mushrooms. Likewise, gyromitrine is considered to be mildly carcinogenic, so daily intake of false morels is not suggested.

______ I live in Michigan and we call these beefsteaks mushrooms, not false morel. It really can't be confused with the morel. We cook them very well and we eat them, without any adverse effects. They are very tasty. I read what's been written about them, but when properly prepared. We get more toxins in our diet from the poisons the farmers spray on our food when it is growing. There is another mushroom known as the false morel. The other mushroom does look like a morel, the only difference is the cap. A real morel, doesn't have a cap. I think that this article needs to be corrected. The beefsteak mushroom was not widely known as the false morel.

In all new Swedish mushroom books the False morel is listed as toxic, even after being boild. The problem is that while boling do indeed destroy most of the poison some WILL remain. While not beeing an imidiate danger it might couse long term liver damage if consumed often enough. Another thing to consider is that the amount of poison in the same species of mushroom may vary considerably between locations. I wouldn't eat one, and i do spend some time mushroom hunting every year. 130.243.153.103 15:24, 16 May 2007 (UTC) _______


Where I come from, northern parts of sweden, it is common knowledge that "murklor" (swedish for false morel), is poisonous and you should take precaution's, my family parboil it three times and swap water in between. Last year our family picked around 20 kg (~44 pounds), and this weekend we've picked another 5+ kg (11+ pounds) because we've eaten the last batch - and I'm not dead yet ;-P

An extensive search on google (query: "murkelsås" - false morel sause) shows amongst the 10,900 hits these:

  • Coop, a leading supermarket chaing in the nordic countries
  • SR, Sveriges Radio (Swedish Radio) is the public service radio broadcaster in Sweden.
  • Aftonbladet, the leading daily newspaper both in Sweden and in Scandinavia

If the False morel was deadly, how come some of the biggest companies have recepies on "murkelsås"?

Just my two cents, Chosig 20:02, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

It seems that many people can eat many Gyromitria over many years and not experience any symptoms that they would associate with eating the mushroom. You can tolerate a considerable amount of kidney and liver damage before you get sick. There are lots of "unknowns" - how sensitive are you, personally, to the toxin? How much toxin is in the mushrooms that grow in your area? How much of it did you remove when you parboiled it? Since we cannot know the answer to any of these questions, the general recommendation is to avoid them. While it is certainly true that life is full of risks and for some the pleasure of a good meal may be worth some (probably small) risk of long-term organ failure or cancer, I feel strongly that the Wiki article should advise caution until more is known about the risk presented by the Gyromitria. How can they sell this mushroom when it is potentially dangerous? Simple: there's no law against it (nor should there be, in my opinion, but a warning label wouldn't hurt). I bet they sell cigarettes too.  ;) Seriously, the information on toxicity is relatively new and probably hasn't crawled its way into the minds of those who set the food safety rules. Revdrace (talk) 11:20, 25 November 2007 (UTC):

[edit] Better Safe pt II

Removed the text: "To that end, it is a very rare mushroom, and not likely to be consumed more than once a year." - just ain't so, as evidenced by the Discussion comment just above this one. I've certainly found plenty of them in Washington state as well. Also added some updated information on toxicity in the introduction, so as to give the casual reader the impression that the edibility of this mushroom is strongly disputed.Revdrace (talk) 11:20, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Moved most of the discussion about toxicity down to the section on "Toxicity" - just left a brief note at the top that the edibility is disputed. Changed "Three further hydrazines" to be "other hydrazines" - three directly contradicts the section below which says that eleven hydrazines have been identified in Gyromitra. Added some references regarding toxicity. I think that further information on toxicity after reported "proper" preparation does exist in the NAMA report but I have been unable to get a copy of the full text of the report. Revdrace (talk) 17:35, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Well done, I would have done that myself but got well and truly sidetracked. I was musing on getting this article to GA at some point...Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:01, 24 February 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Casliber (talk • contribs)

[edit] To-Do list

Contentwise, great job on tidying toxicity & symptoms. Now:

  • issues with chronic consumption (?)
  • need to tidy and clarify where this fungus is consumed, just Gt Lakes, Finland and Pyrenees or elsewhere? I'll look into sources.
  • One book mentions research into cultivation of gyromitrin-free strains commerically as it is not too hard to cultivate.
  • Need to clarify classification. Discinaceae is a redlink and I am not too sure whether it remains in that family.

Add more content issues here. Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:10, 3 March 2008 (UTC)


Frigging refs! Now I find this mention on a blog which'd be great to get referenced! Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:46, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Removed bits

Ive removed teh following which I was unable to ref properly, or needed a bit of a rewrite or weren't essential to a WP:GAN. I (or anyone else) can play with and add them later. Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:07, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Finnish authorities recommend picking false morels in a bag separate from other mushrooms, which is to be washed immediately after use. When transported home by car, false morels should be stored in trunk, since they can emit gyromitrin in the cabin and cause symptoms of poisoning to the driver.


While these small quantities will not cause noticeable symptoms to most people, some people may be hypersensitive to the toxin, and can become seriously ill from eating even properly prepared false morels.[citation needed] Gyromitrin sensitivity is apparently not a hereditary matter, further confusing the question of toxicity.[citation needed]

Additionally even though the mushrooms are widely consumed in Finland, between 1885 and 1988 only four cases of fatal gyromitrin poisoning were recorded, all of them caused by eating the mushrooms raw.[citation needed]

[edit] Minor fix

I'd recommend fixing the first sentence in the lead, which has "by some". Not only the passive voice, but kind of employs WP:weasel wording. Is there a concise way to say by whom or in what culture or context it's enjoyed? Or could the sentence be reworded to omit the "by some"? delldot on a public computer talk 02:47, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, it is tricky, I was going to replace 'by some' with where it is eaten, but that is covered in the next para. I think the lead will have to be rejigged but I note there is a GA review happening at the moment, so I will combine changing this with addressing points that come up with that. Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:49, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
Sounds good :-) I bet there's some way to rewrite the sentence that would make 'by some' unnecessary though. delldot on a public computer talk 07:46, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
Yeah I think you're right. A work in progress. Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:51, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

(outdent) ok, I have rearranged lead to be all singular and removed need for possible weasel wording. Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:56, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Successful good article nomination

I am glad to report that this article nomination for good article status has been promoted. This is how the article, as of March 14, 2008, compares against the six good article criteria:

1. Well written?: Pass, though alot of jargon, medical terminology and complicated language did have to be re-written per WP:Jargon
2. Factually accurate?: Pass
3. Broad in coverage?: Pass
4. Neutral point of view?: Pass
5. Article stability? Pass
6. Images?: Pass

If you feel that this review is in error, feel free to take it to Good article reassessment. Thank you to all of the editors who worked hard to bring it to this status, and congratulations.— Million_Moments (talk) 21:30, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback. I am a medical doctor so I will sometimes read jargon forgetting it may not be immediately accessible to others. I am happy for all help in de-jargonising it :) Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 22:19, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
Well luckily I live with medics so knew what the words meant lol. Million_Moments (talk) 22:22, 14 March 2008 (UTC)