Talk:György Ligeti

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Contents

[edit] Soundtracks

"various pieces which feature prominently in the Stanley Kubrick films 2001: A Space Odyssey, The Shining, and Eyes Wide Shut"

I think that Ligeti works only appeared in 2001: A Space Odyssey. In what tracks did it appeared in The Shinning or Eyes Wide Shut?? JoaoTrindade 21:52, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

The obsessive piano motive in Eyes Wide Shut is from Musica Ricercata; The Shining uses Lontano. 145.222.138.134 10:21, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Picture

Can we please get a better picture of Ligeti?

Agreed, I would suggest [1] maybe?

That one up there right now is horrible! Ligeti was a truly great composer, the least we can do to honor his memory by putting up a flattering picture of the poor guy. I like the pic suggested above, will try and put it up...K. Lastochka 17:53, 18 September 2006 (UTC) Oh never mind, I can't figure out how to change it...can a more seasoned Wikipedian do this? K. Lastochka


i found this cd cover http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Gyorgyligeti.JPG, was wondering if we should use this. It DOES contain the Hamburg concerto which was Ligeti's last work so perhaps it could be used someone on the page but not as the main picture? Kenkoo1987 09:24, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Electronic works

Ligeti produced three electronic works. "Artikulation" and "Glissandi" were recorded and released on Wergo. Ligeti later suppressed "Glissandi" as juvenalia. The third electronic piece was planned out but either never realized or never released. Crculver 21:12, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

In fact the third piece, usually known as 'Pièce électronique no.3', but originally titled 'Atmosphères' (it's not really connected to the later orchestral piece of the same name), was realized in 1996 by Kees Tazelaar, Johan van Kreij and Paul Berg. It was released by the Institute of Sonology on BV-Haast records in 2001. TimR-J 16:18, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Place names

"Ligeti was born in Dicsöszentmárton (now Târnăveni) and received his initial musical training in the conservatory at Kolozsvár (now Cluj-Napoca), both in Transylvania, Romania."

Ligeti was born AFTER 1918. So, he was born in Târnăveni and studied in Cluj, both already in Romania at that time. 86.34.237.183 08:45, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

  • According to the article Târnăveni, the name Târnăveni was not granted to the town until 1941. Do you have a source indicating otherwise? Cluj seems OK though. Also, please use the edit summary when making anon edits, at least to direct people to your justification on the talk page - your edits look like vandalism. You should also be aware that there is a rule against reverting edits more than three times a day, see WP:3RR for more information. Regards, 09:03, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Place names

Right, the name Tarnaveni was officially granted on May 3, 1941. Sorry and thank you for the good advice. 86.34.237.183 13:57, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

The city of Târnăveni name was Diciosânmartin in 1923 when Ligeti was born because was already a Romanian city form 1918. --Olario 17:12, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

But it was still a mainly Hungarian city in the 1920s. All biographies of Ligeti stress this. The Hungarian name can thus continue to be used, although the Romanian name should of course be mentioned alongside. CRCulver 00:07, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

That's fair enough. I think the current form of the article is OK. Tankard 11:11, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

I've just checked the two authoritative English-language biographies of Ligeti today. Both use "Dicsöszentmárton" when talking about his youth, mentioning only in passing that it is now called Tarnaveni. In fact, they don't even mention the Romanian name that existed during the 1920s. There is a reason for this. Using the Hungarian name conjures for the reader the sociolinguistic and cultural milieu that Ligeti grew up in. Since Wikipedia is based on fidelity to already-existing scholarly materials, we used use what they have written. I have reverted the article accordingly. CRCulver 20:46, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

They may use "Dicsöszentmárton", but I think the real Hungarian name is Dicsőszentmárton, written with a double acute accent instead of a diaresis (which indicates that the vowel is long [øː]). --Adolar von Csobánka (Talk) 03:32, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Baffling experience

"Ligeti recalls that his first exposure to the Romanian language came one day while listening to a conversation among the Romanian-speaking town police, a baffling experience for the young boy. After he left, he was not to return to the town of his birth until the 1990s." Frankly I do not understand the meaning of this paragraph and its significance in the context of this article. I suggest it is either expanded (with the appropriate citations) or removed completely. Mentatus 08:55, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

This detail is mentioned in one of the Ligeti biographies (either the one by Toop or Steinetz) and in the booklet for one of the The Ligeti Project CDs. It's meant to give a context for the sociocultural milieu in which Ligeti grew up. I am travelling at the moment (and am less than a kilometer from the conservatory Ligeti studied at) and cannot give a citation at the moment, but in a couple of weeks I'll have access again to my references. CRCulver 14:28, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi, CRCulver, would you please add more details regarding the Ligeti's sociocultural milieu in which he grew up? It sounds interesting. Mentatus 14:40, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Diacritics in sorting key

The sorting key should not have diacritics because Wikipedia's category system sorts using the ascii value, so the diacritics are put *after* the regular letters. So, the order would be a, d, g, o, z, ö ... bogdan 18:50, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ligeti and the Holocaust

According to his interview for the BBC, Ligeti was forced to labor by the Hungarian authorities (he lived then in Kolozsvár/Cluj, which was under Hungarian occupation from 1940 till 1944). His brother was sent to a concentration camp.

"Let's move forward to this dreadful, appalling period of the wartime. You and your family ended up in concentration camp; your father and brother were murdered, your mother survived. You escaped from labour camp. How much is that a time and a period that you think about constantly?

All the time, I think. I cannot accept that my brother was killed. He was five years younger than me. He lived exactly 17 years. I saw him last time, when he was 16, then I was in the Hungarian army in labour service which was very, very difficult, but not as difficult as concentration camp. So, by chance I survived. The hate against the Hitler regime and the Hungarian regime which was allied with Hitler is... I cannot forget it and it never diminished. Emotions, with time which is going on, these emotions of hate and disgust become stronger.

So the idea of forgiveness and reconciliation with that regime and those years is impossible?

Impossible. I think it will only happen that people who survived this horrible time of the early '40's will die, me too, and then there'll be nobody there with the emotions of hate. Or we don't know the future. Think of Africa today, the Tutsi/Hutu murders was very similar." (See John Tusa's Interview with Gyorgy Ligeti on BBC, 1999) Mentatus 23:53, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Infobox

I added the infobox because I feel it helps consolidate the information, and because I think it makes the page more aesthetically pleasing. Any thoughts? S.dedalus 20:22, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi. We now have a policy not to use these boxes for composers (See Composers Project 6.1 amd Opera Project 16). They were really designed for another purpose - so if it's OK with you I am going to take it down - but of course keep the picture. Regards. --Kleinzach 05:23, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Opera

The page for Le Grand Macabre describes it as being Ligeti's only opera, yet this page lists Aventures and Nouvelles Aventures under the Opera heading. I'm not changing it because I wouldn't know, but it seems to me that Aventures and Nouvelles Aventures would belong under Vocal/Choral. Funkeboy 22:49, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Awards

In year 2000 Ligeti was given the Finnish award 'Sibelius Prize' by the Wihuri Foundation. It was featured in the Finnish headline news back then. This prize is in the league of 100 000 euros, not given every year, and past recipients include such names as Sibelius (duh), Skostakovich, Stravinski and Penderecki. Shouldn't this kind of award be mentioned on the list? Matti Nuortio, Oulu, Finland (talk) 14:11, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Done.--Atavi (talk) 15:34, 18 November 2007 (UTC)