Talk:Gwangju
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[edit] Casualty count of the Gwangju Massacre
Let's put an end to this neverending dispute. An official account will suffice. --noirum 19:19, Oct 23, 2004 (UTC)
- Is there a credible source for the "thousands" claim? If not, it doesn't belong at all, even qualified as the opinion of some. VeryVerily 00:08, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
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- I don't think this meaningless 200 vs. thousands edit war will ever end if this goes on like this. I do support 200 claim, but labeling it "official count" will do the job of making it a reliable statement. Leave it up to the readers to decide the validity of claims made by "some." --noirum 02:35, Oct 25, 2004 (UTC)
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- The radical organization the British Broadcasting Corporation ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/752055.stm ) says: "Official figures put the death toll at 200, with another 1,000 protestors injured. But according to other estimates between one and two thousand actually died."
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- So the dictatorial government which just massacred civilians said 200 were killed. Thus the BBC takes the position that it was between hundreds and thousands killed. Ruy Lopez 03:04, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
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- Please note that the governmental investigation was conducted by the civilian government after the demise of the military dictatorship. Investigation by the military government stated only tens of people were killed in the incident. The number 207 is all the casualty that has been accounted for with full personal information. BTW, there's another category called "Other Casualties," of which meaning is not certain - possibly those who died after the incident because of gunshot wound or torturing. The count of OC is 987. Take a look at the numbers in the link I provided and have your say. --noirum 09:38, Oct 25, 2004 (UTC)
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- I don't see the words "Other Casualties" in the BBC sentences I quoted. The BBC says "But according to other estimates between one and two thousand actually died". I don't even think it's necessary to debate here whether 207 died, or 208 died, or more. I simply want to report it here in the manner the BBC did. Ruy Lopez 21:53, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
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- proposal: If this dispute is important enough for us to argue about it, surely it's important enough to let the user know about it. Why not a paragraph detailing the body-count controversy, with sources cited? Wikipedia should be authoritative, but not to the point of pretending a certainty for which we have no basis. I'd just go and make the paragraph myself, but we're in lockdown at the moment. Not having done thorough research myself, I would start by digesting the statements made here, something like this:
- The death toll of the 1980 Gwangju massacre has been subject to considerable dispute. An investigation by the civilian government found that 208 civilians could be confirmed slain. [1] In addition they found 987 "Other Casualties," who suffered substantial injury. However, a report by the BBC indicates that these estimates may be conservative. [2] Estimates prepared by organizations involved in the uprising, such as the Peace and Democracy Party, claim one to two thousand dead. [3] However, detailed information about the identities of the dead is not available to back up these claims.
- The death toll of the 1980 Gwangju massacre has been subject to considerable dispute. An investigation by the civilian government found that 208 civilians could be confirmed slain. [1] In addition they found 987 "Other Casualties," who suffered substantial injury. However, a report by the BBC indicates that these estimates may be conservative. [2] Estimates prepared by organizations involved in the uprising, such as the Peace and Democracy Party, claim one to two thousand dead. [3] However, detailed information about the identities of the dead is not available to back up these claims.
- How does that sound? Visviva 15:33, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- For your information, the Peace and Democracy Party is one of the opposition parties in the late 80s to the early 90s, a period of "quasi-democracy" of the military government, and its legacy is shared by both Millennium Democratic Party and Uri Party, the latter being the current ruling party in South Korea. In that period which saw the transition to the civil democracy, opposition often made somewhat exaggerated claims about the incident. For one thing, there haven't been any extraordinary discoveries concerning the incident for more than a decade, except for some isolated events of unearthing of the buried skulls, and no signifant claims are being made about the number of the casualties at this time. I think your effort has its merit though. noirum 19:43, Oct 31, 2004 (UTC)
- proposal: If this dispute is important enough for us to argue about it, surely it's important enough to let the user know about it. Why not a paragraph detailing the body-count controversy, with sources cited? Wikipedia should be authoritative, but not to the point of pretending a certainty for which we have no basis. I'd just go and make the paragraph myself, but we're in lockdown at the moment. Not having done thorough research myself, I would start by digesting the statements made here, something like this:
