Talk:Gujjar

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[edit] 33 Million Gujjars?

I have a quote from a 1931 census that says there was 1 million Gujjars in both India and Pakistan. This is all I can find with numbers. If someone can give proof that there are 33 million Gujjars in Pak and 30 in India I would love to have it. I am a photographer shooting images of these wonderful people. But where is the proof? Mattsahib 11:46, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

EXACT figures written in site

According to 1931 census the figure of Gujjars in subcontinent is 2,038,685 not one million. you can find lot of informations more on net search.you can also apply formula of population groth on 2 million in 1931, then what would it be in 2006

Can we trust census records provided by british. Gujjars took part in the fight for freedom at a very large scale. They were even distiguinshed as criminal caste. They were deprived of ther own land and jobs, They lost their families. 90% Gujjar villages in delhi and Uttar Pradesh were burnt to ashes, most of them took shelter in Mountains . At the time of census, The gujjars were totaly exaushted and were not in the condition to face british, So the Gujjars did not reveal their original identity to british. Most of them called themselves Rajputs or Banias. Its a very well known fact in the north and north west India.

[edit] Georgian origin

Who is Dr. Huthi? This whole section seems hard to believe. What academic study states this?

Its nothing like hard to believe in this topic Mr. Digvijay.

Dr. Huthi from Georgia came to India and investigated the Gujurs and attempted to develop a theory that they came from Georgia, all the way down to their name - Gujur - which was said to be related to the Persian word for Georgians - Gujris. This would go along with general thinking that the Gujurs have part-Caucasian (Gergian, Chechen, etc.) heritage.

taken from http://robertlindsay.blogspot.com/2006/10/afghanistan-wrapup-for-october-19-2006.html

[edit] Deleted Georgian Origin Section

1. Please do not copy verbatim from other sites. It not only violates copyrights but the sources are not verifiable. 2. Please cite a verifiable source of "Dr Huthi of Georgia"'s study. If it is an academic study, please provide the article. If it is not and is not a common knowledge, then it is not verifiable and hence is not attributable. 3. The section on "Georgian Origin" is thus deleted.

User:Abhijna

Sardar Patel was a Leva patidar from Gujarat. Patidars from Gujarat are kunbis/kurmis. Please see URL for Patidar samaj web site http://www.patidarsamaj.org/culture-traditions.htm. http://bakrol.50megs.com/history.pdf http://www.matiyapatidar.org/index2.htm http://www.lps-london-snv.co.uk/about_us.htm

They clearly mention that they are Kurmis.

Gujjars are from georgia or not. It has been a very big topic of debate among historians.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/1999/99may13/j&k.htm#1

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MABrandon/Origins.html


Sardar patel was a Gurjar. On 135th anniversery of this leader this fact was made clear to everyone in India by NDTV. Beside that There are unlimited books claiming that. Every year his birth anniversery as "Sardar Patel Jayanti" has been celebrated by his own gurjar community....

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1832939,0008.htm


[edit] Clean up flag

I tidied up a lot of the matter of fact parts of the article as well as the famour gujjars. After that? Personally, I feel like the straight list of subclans really gives a flavour of the byzantine indian caste-ology and adds to the article.

[edit] Lists of subclans

Well, I do not question the intentions of the contributer who added these lists, however, I do question the importance of their presence which is rather annoying in an article which is not a list. If others agree, I would like to move this list to a new page titled "List of subclans of Gujjars" or if you have a better title, please let others know on this page. Szhaider 23:19, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, please move them to another page in the least. I would suggest removing them. In this modern age, it is time to avoid focus on caste, worse are subcastes. Amitchaudhary 21:49, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

i k gujral is not gujjar he is khatri!


Raja Mihir Bhoj in medieval India was most famous amongst Gurjar rulers. Its surprising to find this famous name missing from the article.

Also, there are authentic and authoritative sources in forms of puranas about the existence of gurjars since the ancient times. The famous 'Pushkar' Temple in Rajasthan, where according to mythology, Lord Brahma had married a gurjar lady to conduct the 'havana', is a testimony to this fact. A detailed study on this may put some light on the history of gurjars.

Sudhir Chaudhary 59.164.0.16 18:01, 1 June 2007 (UTC)


There are more than 3000 sub-catses of Gujjars.
Ch.Zaheer Noon.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.71.53.240 (talk) 07:34, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sardar Patel

Sardar Patel was a Leva Patidar and Patidars are Kurmis. You can refer to history of Patidars. Some of those are mentioned here.

Kurmis of UP, MP and Bihar use Patel last name because of this. They are celebrating Sardar Patel's anniversery for long time. Kurmis also built Sardar Patel Sewa Sansthan in every distrinct in Eastren UP. Even Sardr Patel's daughter atteneded many of Kurmis's gathering.

Other fact mentioned in this portal that Kunbis are Gujjar that is completely incorrect. Kurmi and kunbi is same caste. Kurmi word is used in UP and Bihar, Kunbi is used in MP and Gujarat. In MP both Kurmi and Kunbi is used. Kurmi and Kunbi are registred as synonyms in Govt of India documents.

In list of OBC for MP Kurmi, Kunbi and Patidars are listed as subcastes of Kurmi community

Kurmi and Kunbi are listed as synonym n Maharastra also

I wanted to educated Gurjar people about it. They are claiming two of Kurmi icons Sardar Patel and Shivaji as Gurjar. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.6.247.154 (talk • contribs)

Added sentence about Patidar-Kurmi/Kunbi connection to the article. utcursch | talk 10:23, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Info reg Gujjars in Maharastra and Gujarat is incorrect and misleading. Kunbi/Kurmi and Gujjars are two diferent castes. Gujjars can not be Kunbi in Maharastra and Gujarat and Gujjars in different states. Central list of OBC or Maharastra clearly mentions that (Sub-Castes : Lewa Kunbi, Lawa Patil, Lewa Petidar), Kurmi are same castes of Kunbi.Gujjars are listed as separat castes. Please refer to Government of India web site.

http://ncbc.nic.in/backward-classes/maharashtra.html

Refer to history of Kunbi Patidars of Gujarat and Maharastra. It clearly shows that Kunb Patidars are Kurmi/Kunbi not Gujjars in these states also.

http://www.patidarsamaj.org/ http://www.matiyapatidar.com/history-by-ramanbhai.html http://bakrol.pustakalay.com/history.pdf http://www.bavisgam.com/Gams.php http://www.bgkpsamaj.com/history.html http://kpsuk1.members.beeb.net/Pride_of_our_history.htm

All of these websites are created by Patidars they clearly mentioned that they are Kurmis/Kunbis not Gujjars. I would request you remove incorrect claim that Kunbis of Gujarat and Maharastra are Gujjars.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.164.83.147 (talk • contribs).

Thanks for the link to ncbc website. I've added it to the article. Please note that the article doesn't say that Leva Patidars are Gujjars. It just says that some scholars believe the Leva Patidars of Gujarat are of Gujjar origin, and also adds the opposing viewpoints. Here is a page from the Government of Maharashtra website. It says "The sect of Kunbis known as the Leva Patidars is...", but also adds "The Leva Kunbis of Gujarat are really of Gujar origin, and the recollection of the Levas is so far correct that they originally belonged to a different caste, but their claim to be Wanis is merely presumptuous.". utcursch | talk 05:36, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

The most famous gujar leader of this century Sarda Vallabh bhai Patel was also a Kunbi, Even the veteran gujar leader anna saheb is addressed as a kunbi.... Does it mean that they are not gujjar ??

The following links will prove that kunbi community include Gurjars as well

1. News

Ashok Gujar, is much powerful than Prakash Jadhav whom Meghe faced in 1996. Gujar, a Maratha Kunbi, enjoys strong support from the electorate in his own assembly segment.

Link: http://www.indianexpress.com/res/web/pIe/ie/daily/19980117/01750284.html

2. Gurjar surnames Kotari, Kotowal, Kugsawar, Kukad, Kunbi, Kurach, Kurad, Kusal, Kushan, Kuvadia

http://www.kerala.com/wiki-Gujjars

3. who are Kunbis: 'to the outside world the Kunbi is regarded as the embodiment of the agriculturist and the term Kunbi and become the generic name for professional cultivator. He is certainly a most plodding. Patient mortal with a cat-like affection for his land.

http://www.nagpuronline.com/nagpurcollectorate/people/castes.html

I hope its enough to make u understand that Kunbis are again not a caste.... similar to marathas, patidars it is a mere title to cultivators.

Hello,

Thats my question. You are saying that Gujjar leader Sardar Patel was a Kunbi. If he was a Kunbi and thats claimed by all Kunbi/Kurmi people, then how was he a Gujjar? What are is the info you have used to conlcude that he was a Gujjar. He is wide accepted Kurmi/Kunbi icon in UP, Bihar, MP, Maharastra and Gujarat. Kunbi and Gujjar are two different castes in most of North Indian states.

None of these links establishes any relation between Kunbi and Gujjars.

Link #1 merely relates Gujjars to Kunbis only based on last name Gujar. In Maharastra most of Non Brahmins use same last names. Gujjars have same gotras as Rajputs and Jats. But Gujjars are neither Rajputs nor Jats.

Link #3 just explains who are Kunbis and there it did not mention any relation between Kunbis and Gujjars


Your conclusion is partially true. Patidar is not a caste. It was the title given to the people who used to keep land records. But Kunbi is the caste and most of the Marathas were emerged from Kunbi Caste. Link #3 clearly mention that.

I am not sure why Gujjars are trying to prove that they are Kunbis, when Kunbis themself don't related to them self. All of Kunbi/Patidar wesites clearly mention that they are not Gujjars.

Other thing confuses me is that is Gujjar is part of kunbi community then it should be same way everywhere not only in Maharastra. Gujjars and Kunbis as listed as separate caste in every state including Maharastra.

there are more than 3000 sub-castes of Gujjars,plz note that.

Ch.Zaheer Noon —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.71.53.240 (talk) 07:32, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] References

The references can't be see correctly in screen--83.56.237.128 (talk) 14:27, 6 June 2008 (UTC)