Talk:Gujarati people

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is within the scope of WikiProject India, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of India-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.

Start

This article has been rated as start-Class on the quality scale. (add comments)

[edit] Majority of Gujarati enjoy non-veg food

Most Gujaratis from higher caste percieve traditions, customs and life style from their own caste as that of Gujaratis at large. Unfortuntly this higher caste represent Gujarat among non-Gujaratis and hence there are many missconceptions about Gujaratis. One of the main missconceptions about Gujaratis is that majority of them are vegetarian which is not true. Infact, about 70% of the Gujarati population enjoy eating fish and meat. Gujarat has long coastal area and fish is a staple food for people living along coast lines. Only the higher caste (even within them most Rajputs eat meat) and Patidars or Kanbi are vegetarian. They make up less than 25% of the Hindu population of Gujarat. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dcpatel (talk • contribs) 18:12, 25 April 2007 (UTC).

Patidars (or at least a part of them) do eat meat and fish. BernardM 19:06, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Very poor information on the origin

After reading this article, I have no clue who Gujaratis are. I am left more confused than before. The changes made to the origins were well deserved. It feels as if the Gujaratis dropped out of thin air. In comparison, the article for Marathas has some more detailed information. Eventually, the origin must be elaborated. It is serving no purpose.

Also, shouldn't there be some reference to the tribes, the clans, the rulers, etc. of Gujarat? Manasl 12:49, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding Origins

The entire section on the Origins of Gujaratis need to be redone. The following para which is currently present is blatantly POV.

"Some scholars hold that "Gujar" or "Gujjar" is the Indic term for Khazar. Khazars (or "Gujjars") are reputed to have invaded historic north western India (the former Indus Valley region) — what is now Gujarat and Punjab (in northwestern India and Pakistan). This region was the first to host Aryan-speaking peoples, and their descendants remain in the area. Other scholars connect the name etymologically to "Gurjiya", the Persian name for Georgia, asserting that they were a Georgian contingent affiliated with the Hephthalites who invaded India and settled in Gujarat by 600 CE. Gujarati language has been adopted by communities such as the Parsis who have made the Gujarat region of the Indian subcontinent their home."

Here are the issues with the above para :

1. Starts with "Some scholars ..." - issues : Which scholars? What kind of Scholars? 2. Attributing Khazars as Gurjars - issues : Blatant attempt on re-writing history! 3. Other scholars connect the name etymologically to "Gurjiya" then lead to the Persian name for Georgia - hinting that the Gujaratis are Georgians. - issues : Which scholars again? Further is etymology is an art and not a science! So it cannot be cited as definitive!!!! Third another blatant attempt on re-writing history...

As a Gujarati myself, I take offense that my own history is being re-written! I protest it !!! As such I am removing the content for the origins.

USER:abhijna

there is definetly something wrong with this section. references would be nice...i dont want to delete the information, but it does seem quite iffy! Pirus 03:12, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

sigh, based on what this discussion page says, the edit page has got to get the axe. Pirus 05:49, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Defination of Gujarati

There can be two types of Gujarati: 1. Citizen of State of Gujarat in India. No matter what language they speak. 2. People who speak Gujarati as their native tougue.

This page should be primary to identify second category. Chirags 18:29, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

There is a distiniction between people whose native tongue is gujarati and people who are ethnically gujarati. Are the parsis gujarati or persian ?

Parsis living within Gujarat can be considered Gujaratis. Further, their language has been heavily influenced by the Gujarati language.

65.93.206.241 19:27, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

The list of Gujarati people on this list has grown to be immensely large; is this necessary? Should we have an article similar to this List of people from Gujarat?

I agree that the list is way too extensive to be kept in this article. Having it as a seperate article could be a good idea. However, I think a "List of Gujaratis" article would become quickly populated with red links. See List of Pashtuns as an example of this. Then again, it would keep this article clean and tidy. Thoughts, anyone? --Yenemus 19:24, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gujarati People and Location

Gujarat State in India, is a relatively newer creation compared with Gujarati language, or Identity of Gujarat as a region. Chirags 18:31, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Gujarati people and India

Gujarati did origiate with undivided India or rather Indian Subcontinent. To claim them as part of India only would not be right. Chirags 22:19, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

L.K Advani is not a Gujarati,he is a Sindhi.mahawiki 12:27, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Who is Umang Seth, Industrialist. Which Industry does he belong to?

I could not found any Billionaire by name Ravi chavda and similarly there was no record to suggest there was underworld godfather names jay chavda —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.227.123.250 (talk) 11:57, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pictures

-Someone needs to get some pictures of famous Gujaratis to put on the box like they did with the Punjabis, Persians and Pathans. There are tons of guys out there: Gandhi, Sardar Patel, even Jinnah. -User: Afghan Historian

I have added a picture

Original picture was unsourced. Put up a new image, with source information and caption. --Yenemus 12:04, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "related groups" info removed from infobox

For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all {{Infobox Ethnic group}} infoboxes. Comments may be left on the Ethnic groups talk page. Ling.Nut 17:22, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Photo

I added the photo with Gandhi, Jinnah, Patel, and Freddie Mercury. Some people may not include Jinnah or Mercury as people because of strict definitions, but I based my decision off of the premise that this isn't a fixed ethnicity and highly syncretic therefore Parsis and other "foreign" subgroups who all speak the language or have connections to Gujarat are include.

Please respond and edit freely, but I still think my addition is cool =P.

Regardless of however "non-fixed" or "syncretic" the Gujarati people as a group might be considered, it doesn't change the fact that Parsis are definitely not Gujaratis. Of course, they've lived in Gujarati and speak Gujarati, but they just aren't a part of the "Gujarati peoples". Please remove Freddie Mercury. Tuncrypt 14:50, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the image change, please don't simply remove the new version. At the very least you should have replaced the original image.
It's not clear that you're right; you haven't made a case for Parsis not to be included. The article itself defines its subjects as "traditionally Gujarati speaking peoples who can trace their ancestry to the Gujarat region in India"; you accept that they're Gujurati-speaking, so your point presumably rests upon their not being able to trace their ancestry to Gujurat. Parsis have been in Gujurat for about a millenium... If that's not enough, what is? Does anyone count as Gujurati? --Mel Etitis (Talk) 09:03, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Parsis trace their ancestry to Persia. While over the very long time of 1000 years they have assimilated linguistically and culturally, they have stuck to intermarrying and retained their unique religion, and through this, and by self-definition, they remain a separate "peoples". I'm not an expert on the Gujarati people, but I think that Parsis being separate is a fact of utmost simplicity. Basically it would be like saying that the Welsh people are English... something like that. Tuncrypt 12:16, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

No, it wouldn't be like that; it would be more like denying that the English should be included as "British People" because they trace their ancestry back to Normans, Vikings, Romans, etc. Where did the rest of the inhabitants of Gujurat come from?

If you admit linguistic and cultural assimilation over 1,000 years, then I don't see that there are good grounds for denying that they're Gujuratis. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 17:02, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

The grounds for denying that Parsis are apart from Gujaratis are ethnic. Gujaratis are of Indo-Aryan lineage and Parsis are Iranic, and this division has persisted through Parsi endogamy. What's more is cultural uniqueness and its preservation (I take back "cultural assimilation"), and most important of all, self-definition as a group unto itself.

The term "Gujarati" is not as general as British. It is not a national umbrella term, whose place would be better suited for "Indian". It is instead analogous to the English people, and the fact that the Welsh or the Scots speak English doesn't make them English people would be the parallel I'm drawing.

Oh yes and also, the man in the picture described himself as "Persian" in interviews. Tuncrypt 17:00, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Maybe I have ended up saying too much. My basic statement, which my initial reply should have been, is: Parsis are a distinct ethno-cultural group apart from the Gujaratis. Tuncrypt 04:27, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Then the article needs to be rewritten, as it defines the Gujurati people in way that allows the inclusion of Parsis. ("English people", incidentally, isn't an ethnic term either.) --Mel Etitis (Talk) 13:42, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

The English "people" are not just consisted of Anglo-Saxon Germanic people but Brythonic Celtic origins too, in the same way Gujarati is now an ethno-linguistic group that depends on the REGION. All of the people included at least have one Gujarati parent and therefore should be included. And the Parsis are considered Gujarati much in the same way Ashkenazi Jews--who intermarry and behaved much in the same way as Parsis--are to German people.

Let's take a vote on whether the picture accurately describes "Gujarati" as well as any other inclusive ethnicity does. Dvptl 16:42, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why Haplorrhini

Why are Gujarati's related to the Haplorrhini/snub nosed monkey? Is this right? Maybe something to do with mythology? Or is it vandalism?

V. interested. msp4realmf 16:22, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

It was most likely vandalism. Has since been removed. --Yenemus 19:18, 1 November 2007 (UTC)