Talk:Guantian, Tainan

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[edit] Third Opinion

The term "Republic of China" may be technically correct, but it is also confusing to people who don't know the difference between ROC and PRC (which I believe is most of us). The term "Taiwan" refers to the island - a geographical place - and makes no claims as to its statehood or nationality. Its inclusion in a Wikipedia article does not, on its face, endorse or refute any opinion on Taiwan's political status. We have an entire article devoted to that subject, and the articles on Taiwan and the ROC use a lot of careful language to clarify the distinction. I would suggest that editors acknowledge both terms are correct, but for the moment the word "Taiwan" represents the common usage and most closely complies with WP:NC. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Flakeloaf (talk • contribs) 01:12, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Exactly--Jerrypp772000 19:20, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I think putting Taiwan would be more appropriate. 1st of all, the ROC is known as Taiwan, and we should always put the common names in Wikipedia. 2nd, if this user like the ROC that much, in the article Taiwan, it says that it is governed by the ROC anyways. 3rd, Most, more than 55% of the people living in the ROC refer themselves as Taiwanese and not Chinese. 4th, putting ROC would confuse people because they would not know the difference between ROC and PRC.--Jerrypp772000 19:51, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I dont think the 55% poll conducted by some group in Taiwan can be factored into determining the name in an encyclopedia. People will ultimately know the difference between the Republic of China and PRC if they just simply read a little bit. Now, we want to educate these people. ROC is fine. -Nationalist 02:11, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Stop, read the naming conventions for common names, will you?--Jerrypp772000 19:34, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Clearly, you have political intentions and motives, because you purposely changed Chen from being President of the Republic of China to President of Taiwan. He is not the President of Taiwan. He is the President of the Republic of China. Taiwan is already present, so adding ROC is also ok. Also the fact that Chen is the President of the ROC, definitely we should add ROC. -Nationalist 22:11, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Technically, he is both. 1st, Taiwan is the common name of the ROC. 2nd, it says in the article of President of the Republic of China that it is known as President of Taiwan outside of ROC. So I would not say that I have political intentions. At least I don't have any obvious political opinions on my user page.--Jerrypp772000 23:37, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, on your user page I can see that you have pan-green leaning politics. You say that "Taiwan" is totally a separate country from "China." It says that you come From Taiwan. (with only picture of Island of Taiwan; no mention of Republic of China) Saying that Taiwan is a totally different country from "China" is very controversial and political. First off, "Taiwan" is not a country, nor is "China." The names are Republic of China and People's Republic of China. Also, I would like to say that Vic and Jiang have both agreed on this issue. Please read the naming conventions again please. -Nationalist 04:08, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

No. If you think about it, Taiwan is the common name for the ROC, and China is the common name for the PRC. Why would I introduce myself using such formal terms? And by the way I do live on the island of Taiwan, so why not put a picture of it?--Jerrypp772000 16:15, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Even though you wouldn't a true supporter of the Republic of China would include Republic of China or at least ROC on their page. And they would refer to them as citizen of the Republic of China and the flag is the Flag of the Republic of China. Commonly doesn't really matter. Wikipedia does not use inaccurate terms of "Taiwan" or "China". It is stated in the naming conventions. Read them again. But it is your user page and there is a POV although u might not want to admit it, but it Exists.-Nationalist 22:27, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

It is in your POV that my user page is biased too.--Jerrypp772000 22:30, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Taiwan vs. ROC

I think it would be a lot less confusing if we change the Taiwan province, ROC into Taiwan (ROC) or simply Taiwan, and also see this: Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names).--Jerrypp772000 20:46, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Sadly, we have to start this discussion because someone can't cooperate peacefully with us. Taiwan is the common name for ROC. So please don't edit this article, whoever that is changing it to Taiwan, ROC.--Jerrypp772000 23:42, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I want Nationalist (talk · contribs) to know that the third opinion is there for a reason, please don't ignore it. Thanks.--Jerrypp772000 19:10, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

And also, as you've said before, Nationalist, this is the English speaking world, so maybe we should use the terms used in the "English-speaking world," right? So maybe we should put president of Taiwan instead of president of the ROC. Is that what you've wanted?--Jerrypp772000 19:18, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

SO you are proposing to move the Republic of China article and renaming it Taiwan instead. And changing all ROC and Republic of China terms to Taiwan only? Is that your goal? -Nationalist 22:19, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

No because Taiwan and ROC have different histories even though Taiwan is the common name for the ROC.--Jerrypp772000 22:27, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

No but you said English speaking world. you want to combine that stuff? Republic of China is not equal to Taiwan. 中華民國萬歲, 反對台獨 -Nationalist 22:30, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I never said they are equal, I said Taiwan is the common name, and it would be less confusing to add it here. I don't care what you think about Taiwan independence really.--Jerrypp772000 22:36, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Why not just use Tainan, Republic of China (Taiwan)? BlueShirts 06:43, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I am fine with that, but Nationalist isn't.--Jerrypp772000 20:14, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

No that is completely wrong the suggestion to use Republic of China (Taiwan) for this Guantian township article. This is an administrative division, just like in the U.S. Houston, Texas, U.S.A. No one does Houston U.S.A (Texas). For township and administrative divisions, there is no compromise. You have to follow the Chinese Naming Conventions -Nationalist 21:16, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Again, Taiwan is the common name. You don't want to put ...County, Taiwan province, Taiwan do you? So ROC (Taiwan) and Taiwan (ROC) are both fine.--Jerrypp772000 21:18, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

By following the Chinese Naming convention that strict, are you saying we must sacrifice the understanding of a general audience to abide to the policies and guidelines? We have to assume that none of the readers understand what ROC is instead of your presumption that they will understand as you do about the concept that is way too complicated and disputed. In fact, you have to ignore all rules for some cases in order to improve Wikipedia AND make it more accessible to a general audience. Vic₂₂₆ 21:24, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Also I believe the user that provided the third opinion is considered a "general audience," and that is why he/she prefers Taiwan over ROC. Now I'm just asking for it to be ROC (Taiwan) or Taiwan (ROC).--Jerrypp772000 21:26, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Now look, if you want to follow Jerry's method. dont you think that is also a bit extreme? Then why dont we just move Republic of China article to Taiwan article. Why dont we eliminate all instances of ROC or Republic of China and replace it with Taiwan. That is not right at all. Taiwan, Republic of China is perfectly fine. There is no mention of province. This is the de facto reality. County, Taiwan province, Republic of China. When you put Taiwan Province, Taiwan. THAT IS COMPLETELY Incorrect. What the heck are you thinking? By that, you are equating Republic of China to Taiwan itself and that is completely incorrect. You are some Taiwan independence freak and I suggest that you stop making POV edits. -Nationalist 00:47, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

First of all, I said you don't want Taiwan province, Taiwan do you, so I was saying none of us want that, I thought you were good at English but w/e. Second, all I'm asking is to make it ROC (Taiwan) or Taiwan (ROC), which makes ROC equal to Taiwan just in a naming sense. Since Taiwan is the common, that wouldn't be incorrect.--Jerrypp772000 01:15, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

The Republic of China is never equal to Taiwan. So now you are admitting your agenda, you did that by saying ROC equals Taiwan. NO IT IS NOT. Stop with your TW independence bull shit. -Nationalist 02:30, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Why are you singling out his statement "ROC equal to Taiwan" and ignoring "just in a naming sense"? And please STOP assuming bad faith and making personal attacks immediately. Also, I do not think you have the right to file an RfC against another user while your own RfC is currently undergoing scrutiny of the community. So please behave nicely from now on. One more: Please do not ignore this comment intentionally as you are agitating the matter even more serious than before. Vic₂₂₆ 03:10, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I said in a naming sense. It confuses me when you said you are a native speaker of English, and you said "more native" than me. I don't think a native English speaker would say that. And you don't seem to understand what I'm trying to explain.--Jerrypp772000 17:00, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

How about using "Republic of China, commonly known as Taiwan" instead of Republic of China (Taiwan). To be honest with you, most people will think about commie China when they hear Republic of China. BlueShirts 00:12, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

That's good for me also, but Nationalist doesn't like that either.--Jerrypp772000 00:23, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Okay, now it seems like no one disagrees to use "Republic of China, commonly known as Taiwan." So it wouldn't be a problem changing it. However the problem is the next statement. I think we should change it into "president of the Republic of China (Taiwan)," even though it is commonly known as "president of Taiwan." Is that a good enough compromise?--Jerrypp772000 22:16, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] President of the Republic of China

As stated in the Republic of China Constitution, Chen Shui-bian is the President of the Republic of China. There is no mention of Republic of China (Taiwan). Thus far, the Constitution nor his title has been changed. Therefore we should follow the given conventions/standards and not make up your own fantasies about Chen being President of Republic of China (Taiwan). Because he is not. TingMing 19:46, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not about what the laws say, but about facts.--Jerrypp772000 19:51, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

That is fact that he is the President of the Republic of China. TingMing 20:10, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

It is also a fact that he is the president of Taiwan.--Jerrypp772000 20:11, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

He is not President of Taiwan. He is President of the Republic of China. Taiwan is a province of the Republic of China. That is like saying Hu Jian-tao is President of Shandong Province. That thinking is absurd. TingMing 20:13, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

No, it is actually similar to saying Hu is the Pres. of China.--Jerrypp772000 20:19, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

No one who knows Fluent English can comprehend what you are saying. Can you please restate that sentence Mr. Tai Ke TingMing 20:22, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Not to be offensive, but maybe you aren't a fluent-English-speaker. I said to that user "we don't want Taiwan, Taiwan."--Jerrypp772000 20:27, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Hello Tai Ke, I am sure you Tai Ke is definitely not good at English. I'm a native English speaker and a proud American unlike you who just came from the island of Formosa to Virginia. Do not encroach on my rights as an American. TingMing 20:28, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Come on, we all know that you're from Taiwan. You think the CU doesn't check your IP address?--Jerrypp772000 20:29, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Mr. Tai Ke, I am not from Taiwan. I am an American. You are sadly mistaken. TingMing 20:52, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

By the way, why would someone be up at 4:50 AM in Taiwan. You do know that it is night time in Taiwan. You hilarious Tai Ke. TingMing 20:55, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, maybe someone who has political intentions will, not to be offensive.--Jerrypp772000 21:12, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

BTW, I don't take Tai Ke, which I assume means 台客, as an insult. Tai Ke really isn't describing anything like me, though.--Jerrypp772000 22:14, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

TingMing, do you have any other reason to revert my edits, other than reverting a so-called "Tai Ke's" edits?--Jerrypp772000 19:10, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Please remember that there is a third opinion and possibly a consensus of this article in this talkpage. Please go through those discussion before you revert again. Thanks.--Jerrypp772000 19:13, 23 April 2007 (UTC)