Talk:Grille (artillery)

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Additional information and associated task forces: This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-Class status: Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met Associated task forces (general topics): Military technology and engineering task force Weaponry task force Associated task forces (nations and regions): German military history task force Associated task forces (periods and conflicts): World War II task force

This should be relabled Grille (Cricket) as the Bison was actually the 12 SP artillary pieces sent to North Africa based on the Panzer Mk II chassis

Done - don't know why some authors insist on the Bison myth - the Bioson was indeed a Panzer-II modification with only 12-14 converted and used in Africa. --Denniss 01:07, 2005 Mar 13 (UTC)

Are you sure about this? I've always seen that the Grille series were the waffentragers developed later in the war, _not_ the self propelled artillery pieces described on this page. A cursory google search seems to bear this out.

Some sources would be appreciated. --Martin Wisse 20:30, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Some searches with Google claim the sIG 33 auf Panzer Ib is Bison I, then the sIG 33 auf Panzer II would be Bison II (alternate name Sturmpanzer I/II). The sIG 33 auf Panzer 38(t) is without any question the Grille (alternate name Sturmpanzer 38(t)). There is/was a weapon carrier development called Grille but they all had a number with them. Look at http://www.achtungpanzer.com or http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de . I really don't know who mixed up the names Bison and Grille but it seems a lot of authors did some copy & paste using the wrong sources. I'd like to see some valid german sources calling the sIG33 auf Selbstfahrlafette (later Geschützwagen) 38(t) the Bison.

Well, I doubt that here was Bison at all. No one serious source shows the name Bison next to self propelled s.I.G.33 on PZ.I or Pz.II chassis. For example - Doyle's "standard Catalog of German Military Vehicles". Perhaps, Bison was allied code name? Or just one of the old mistakes? Anyway, it should be "Bisons" in German.Fat yankey 11:23, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't know either where Bison came from but it looks more like an unofficial nickname because of the huge fat vehicle the Panzer I based versions were. --Denniss 15:39, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

I did some research, In a lot of british books the Grille is refered to as Bison eg Orbis Publication, War Machine, even Chamberlain in his pre-1978 books refers them as Bison. This seems to have been from them all using a single reference published in the early 1960's. eg, in over 20 books, I have, published before 1980 it's Bison. In 1978, Chamberlain & Doyle published Encyclopedia of German Tanks of World War Two and refered to it as a Grille since then it's been Grille as Chamberlain & Doyle have seen as being the main source.

• I do have a theory that it's refered to a Bison as that is the Divisional symbol that was present on the 15cm armed vehicals sent to Africa and original authors assumed that the 15cm range of vehicals were all variants.Mark1800 23:30, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Peer Review

Can someone have a look at what I've done. If you have any questions, please discuss here before editting. (spelling doesn't count. My spelling sucks) Mark1800 01:48, 20 October 2006 (UTC) Bold text