Talk:Grigori

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That the "Sons of God" are fallen angels is not required of the passage, however sensational as that may be. Cross referencing inside Scripture, it seems that the most likely assumption would be that the sons of men would be righteous followers of Yahweh. The well written article would be more thorough with a mention of this alternate interpretation included.

That the Book of the Watchers in Enoch is referring to the same creatures mentioned Genesis 6 is beyond any reasonable doubt, to be honest... -Hrugnir

Some Errata: There is no Verse 9 in Chapter 7 of Enoch I. It might be in Enoch II (slavonic) or III (Greek) but for sure it's not in I. Scholars typically only accept I as an "uncorrupted" text as II and III show other elements thrown in. Also, it is of dispute in the scholarly community on whether Enoch was derived from already known scripture or if it was actually used and drawn on by early writers: Language needs to be used to neutralize that part of the article tone.

There is also more items attributed to the angels than what the article depicts, Enoch I provides a great deal of information on this, and though some of it is conflicting, this article shouldn't be reduced but perhaps we should describe the conflicting evidence--at the bare minimun report it completely.

Azazel taught men to make swords, knives, shields and armor. Bracelets and ornaments, as well as the use of antimony. It's important to note, that what we call antimony, is different. The Egyptians called it Kohl, and it indeed was used in cosmetics. This is all detailed in Enoch I Chapter 8:1. Azazel is also responsible for working of precious Gems, coloring and dyes. Apparently learning these trades led men astray, as in verse 2 says that the men went away into impiety.

Verse 3 names Semjaza (Spells, root-cutting) Armaros (counter-spells) Baraqiajal (Astrology—of great importance to persians and Zoroastrianism, the father of Judaism and Christianity.) Araqiel taught the signs of the earth, Shamsiel signs of the sun, and Sariel the course of the moon, Kokabel the constellations, (astrology again?) and Ezeqeel the clouds.

The fact that there are two angels dealing with astrology, I think this definitely places historic importance on these names being placed more towards mesopotamia, though I'm not an expert on Mesopotamian mythology.

 --XeNO  

Source: "The Lost Book of Enoch" by Joseph B. Lumpkin

This page is in real need of footnotes. There are several passages that calim to be from Leland's Aradia. It would be tremendous if corresponding page numbers could be put in. Likewise, the article claims that Gardner wrote about the Watchers, but it doesn't state the name of the book, much less any specific reference. Without such references, the phrasing claims authority but does not actually offer any, which can be very misleading to readers. (I personally don't know if the claims are accurate, otherwise I would put in the page numbers myself. It's one of the reasons I'm looking for page numbers!)Nightwind2 (talk) 07:51, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Necessities of civilization?

"metal weapons, cosmetics, and other necessities of civilization"

I just don't know how I'd survive without my metal weapons and cosmetics. Misodoctakleidist (talk) 21:11, 30 December 2007 (UTC)