User talk:Greier/archive1

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Contents

[edit] Hunyadi

I'm not going to revert you, because you'll probably proceed and violate the 3RR, which will earn you another weekly block (maybe two weeks if they didn't like the "dork"). It makes you wonder who the real dork around here is. --Tēlex 18:23, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Yawn... I'll have you know that I am of the more pro-Romanian yet non-Romanian editors on Wikipedia. How many non-Romanian editors do you know who put up with crappy Romanian nationalism? --Tēlex 18:32, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your query

I could not find any reference to it in my 1896 edition of Istoria Romanilor by Xenopol (yes, I have one of those...), but that may be because these are different books. I have looked through the Cuman chapter and the Tatars one, but they seem very succint and do not quote Rashid at all. My guess it that Rashid was probably mistaken, and probably relatively indefferent (in the sense that he was using his own set of conventions to allude to the land more than the ruler, and do so in retrospect); a mistake by Xenopol would seem rather contrieved (I don't see why that error and that error only would appear in that form in a copied body of text). In any case, perhaps you could add in brackets ("[]") a reference to Basarab, and indicate the problem with the chronology. Dahn 21:07, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Quote

Hey, cool! —Khoikhoi 18:54, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Roman Lares.gif

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[edit] Did you see this article about Vlachs?

Vlahii nostri 212.85.15.116 08:40, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, interesting, altough I think it`s a little "optimist"... I doubt that indeed "mai toţi locuitorii micii aşezări sunt vlahi şi nu şi-au uitat nici limba, nici tradiţiile şi nici obârşia."... Probably it`s true, but I doubt they know what "vlach" mean, or what is the history of their language or their origin ("obârşia")... Many are undoubtably brainwashed... However, what is good is that there is involvemnt and interest from the Romanians... And it is good that, altough timide, the truth is sayd: " Toţi sunt cetăţeni greci şi atât, nu au nici măcar şcoală în limba vlahă, iar la autonomie culturală nu pot nici măcar să viseze."... greier 13:34, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Also to read David Roessel's "In Byron's Shadow: Modern Greece in the English and American Imagination"[1] - a review here greier 13:47, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

And David Brewer`s "Ethnic truth and modern Greek history" [2] greier 13:56, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Excerpt from David Brewer`s book:

‘In his 1961 book The Dilessi Murders Romilly Jenkins told the story of the murder of three English aristocrats and an Italian nobleman near Athens in 1870, and the international repercussions which followed. A chapter was devoted to the concept of `ethnic truth'. According to this, wrote Jenkins, `the modern Greek was at once the spiritual heir of all the splendid intellectual endowments of the classical age, and the political heir of all the vast pretensions, both religious and imperial, of Byzantium'. From the first he derived his genius and culture, from the second his natural right and fitness to resume empire over all the nations of the eastern Mediterranean; and `from both his evident superiority, in intellect and capacity, over the members of any other race'. It followed that his conduct was above reproach, and his country a paragon of order and enlightenment. But, Jenkins went on, this ideal picture bore no relation to the actual Greece of 1870, a country economically weak and impotent in foreign affairs, its inhabitants doubtfully descended from the ancient Greeks, its countryside infested with brigands, and its politicians corrupt.In the furore over the Dilessi murders the Greeks denied all responsibility and argued, when the facts were clearly otherwise, that the travellers had rashly brought the tragedy on themselves and that the brigands involved were not Greeks but as Vlachs from the north. The `ethnic truth' of the Greeks was completely opposed to the facts as perceived by the rest of the world. Yet `ethnic truth' won. Of those accused of complicity in the murders, minor figures, mostly Vlachs, were condemned, while major figures, mostly Greeks, were cleared.’'


Yes! And that's precisely the reason why many Vlachs of Greece to this day still privately resent the Greeks. Do you know the expression Potemkin village? The Greeks made out of the Vlachs a kind of ethno-version of these Potemkin villages. But the carboard and plaster are falling apart right now. There are signs that once Romania will enter the EU as a full member at the end of 2006, this lost tribe of Greater Romania will again turn their faces towards the Mother Country 195.212.0.122 15:16, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Greier: intoarce-te la articol si vezi comentariul nr. 18 de sub articol al lui stefan(26-06-2006 17:33). Ce dobitoc! Pun pariu ca e vreun student grec pripasit in Romania care musca mana care-l hraneste. Perfidie tipica greceasca 195.212.0.122 15:44, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Ce pot sa`i zic decat ca e un idiot? Ii mai pot spune altceva? Nu cred... Si atunci de ce sa pierd timpul... Apropo, nu cred ca e vreun student grec... Cred ca ori e bozgor, or un machidon "brainwashed".... greier 15:46, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Nu cred sa fie machedon din Romania. Eu n-am intalnit inca grecomani printre ei. Uita-te la alt comentariu si ce zice de ex nicolae(26-06-2006 11:53) bravo lor....fac cinste neamului romanesc...chiar daca zburãm armîneasti... :)!!! hai armînii ! 195.212.0.122 16:19, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

If you want to see how the Vlachs in Greece really feel, check this out. --Tēlex 15:52, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

I know what Tamos.gr and Vlachoi.gr are capable of... And by the way...go show that link to Apostolos.... ;) greier 15:56, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Poor poor "Vlachophone" Greeks... Nobody understoods them... This Thede Kahl should be shot... how dared he heart the feelings of the greekomans??? greier 15:57, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Why don't you tell me what the lives of the Sarakatsani in Rumania are like. --Tēlex 16:01, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
There are no Saracaciani in Romania greier 16:15, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Well those 4,146 people who declared themselves Greeks in the 2002 Rumanian census. --Tēlex 16:17, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Well, those 4,146 people (and they could be less than that) have granted (no need for elections and voting) seats in the Parliament, like all minorities, no mather how much they number or from when and where they camed from... Those 4,146 have state granted education in their maternal tongue. What else do you want to know? 16:23, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes and they have a Greek MP in the Romanian Parliament elected on the lists of the Greek Ethnic Party of Romania (Uniunea Elena it's called) 195.212.0.122 16:20, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Big deal. Greece has had an Aromanian Prime Minister, Ioannis Kolettis. --Tēlex 16:22, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
the big deal is that, as shown above, that they have that seat with no votes needed. 16:23, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Telex! See this text on Sarakatsani and Vlachs in French if you understand the language text

[3] 18 of the 200 deputy seats are automatically granted to minorities (withouth counting the hungarian minority, which have an extra 22 deputies) greier 16:27, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
the structure of the Romanian deputy chamber in english greier 16:30, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
The Sarakatsani are hellenisized Aromanians? In Greece they tell us it is the other way round, the Aromanians are latinisized Greeks. --Tēlex 16:29, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Writes Irina Nicolau: ll y a des voix qui estiment que les Saracaciani sont eux aussi des Aroumains. Les quelques amples ouvrages affirmant qu'ils seraient des Grecs n'ont pas reçu de réplique sur mesure. 195.212.0.122 16:33, 26 June 2006 (UTC)


See Telex! Here's Mr. Fotopulos! An ethnic Greek elected in the Romanian Parliament Fotopulos 195.212.0.122 16:30, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

It's a shame Greece doesn't adhere to such a liberal approach. There are three Turkish deputies in the Greek parliament representing the Turkish minority in Thrace (90,000 of them), although they have to stand in elections. There are also 21,994 holders of Romanian citizenship in Greece according to the 2001 census, although they do not get deputies in parliamens, as they don't have Greek citizenship, and cannot vote. --Tēlex 16:45, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm not talking about aliens, I'm talking about native ethnic minorities (not recognized as such in Gr) anyway, we know the situation there. But it's this PASOK Pomak lawyer lady Ms. Karahasan who might became the new bey set to rule over Drama and Xanthi 195.212.0.122 16:53, 26 June 2006 (UTC)


I don't know about today, but there is an old Vlah song in Macedonia:

Sh-ira noapte, sh-avea luna

I

Sh-ira noapte, sh-avea luna

sh-nji-avdzai cantic di-Armana

sh-nji-avdzai cantic di-Armana

iu-sh-plandzea pi-aljei curuna

II

Sh-plandzea corba, shi zghilea

Sh perlji di-n-cap sh-lji-arupea

Sh perlji di-n-cap sh-lji arupea

Sh-a-ficiorlui ma lji-dzatsea

III

Gione, cara s-banedz, s-nji creshci

Bunj parintsa s-nu-agarsheshci

Sh-la Grets fara uminatate

Ti una dao s-la pateshci

IV

Dado, cara s-banedz, s-nji crescu,

bunj parintsa nu-agashescu

sh-la Grets fara uminatate

ti una dzatse va la paltescu

[edit] Arvanites

Greier, if you are willing to troll articles relating to Arvanites, at least get acquainted with the subject first [4]. I'm of Arvanites origin (and Hectorian is of Vlach origin) - if you have any queries, ask us. --Tēlex 16:40, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Hectorian is half Greek half Vlach, nothing wrong with that it's just that be cautious since he's leaning obviously towards his Greek side. Overall he's not to be trusted when it comes to Vlach issues 195.212.0.122 16:45, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Greier, I concur with Telex. If there's one thing that everybody in the published literature agrees on, it's that today's Arvanites identify as Greeks. It's so obvious and so overwhelmingly well documented that there seemed to be no need to source it separately. Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:59, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Greier, see my answer to Future prefect if you wish atUser_talk:Future_Perfect_at_Sunrise#The_Arvanites_did_not_bother_to_learn_Greek_well_into_the_19th_century Apostolos Margaritis 09:10, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Trolling

Do you think you could stop now (or someone will end up violating the 3RR), so we can work something out on the Aromanians. --Tēlex 16:58, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Don`t insult. Edits were fully justified. Please see WP:Civility greier 17:00, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Greier, I'd suggest that you mark edits as minor or vandalism only when they clearly fall into one of those categories. For potentially controversial edits, pointing people to a summary of your reasons for making them is helpful. Antonrojo 17:05, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank`s for the advice... I was merely doing what they were doing (e.g. removing the template history of Greece from articles not part of the serie, is consistent with what they make on article Vlachs). greier 17:07, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding reversions[5] made on June 26, 2006 (UTC) to [[6]]

Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia under the three-revert rule, which states that nobody may revert an article to a previous version more than three times in 24 hours. (Note: this also means editing the page to reinsert an old edit. If the effect of your actions is to revert back, it qualifies as a revert.) Thank you. (ESkog)(Talk) 16:58, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] No personal attacks, please

This is in regard to your recent edit on Concept of the origin of Romanians theories. In the abovementioned edit, the summary you have used is a personal attack. Kindly refrain from doing so in the future. You can also review WP:NPA. Thanks and regards, --Nearly Headless Nick 10:59, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Checkuser request

This message is regarding the checkuser you have just requested (Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Cuzco) which is devoid of any information whatsoever except the usernames. Please provide some information and the reason for the checkuser request i.e evidence of policy violations, suspected sockpuppet-like behavior etc. Also you have posted the request directly on the main Checkuser page. The requests are supposed to be created on subpages and transcluded on the main page. Please follow the instructions given on the page for any future requests. Thanks --Srikeit (Talk | Review me!) 11:21, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Arvanites

Greier, the Arvanites article has been an issue of some very long-standing disputes but is now more peaceful than it ever was. There are a few small open issues about POV, and there are currently some talks "behind the scenes" between interested editors on how to reach a good final stable version. We've chosen that method exactly because in the past every modification, be it ever so minor, has tended to spark a return to the alround controversies of last year. In this situation, I'd say that your adding of dispute tags is not particularly helpful. If you want to know what other people think about the article, I suggest you join us in private discussion, for the above reasons. Thanks, Fut.Perf. ☼ 13:33, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Arrrrgghhh! Stop the reverting on Arvanites. Both of you. :-( Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:06, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Blocked

I've blocked you for one week for persistent disruptive edit warring and incivility. Tom Harrison Talk 17:05, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] BTW

So, Greier, you think that Albanians fantasizing as Greeks is pathetic? How about the vast majority of Vlachs in Greece - the Grecomani as you call them. It's not Hellenization; it's absorbment into the superior Greek culture.--Tēlex 15:43, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Aromanians in France

Regardless our disputes and differences in the way we see things, one question: do u have any idea of the number of aromanians (or people of aromanian descent) in France? i searched for it, but found nothing so far. Thanks --Hectorian 19:03, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Try [7] greier 19:12, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, although i did not understand many things... --Hectorian 19:38, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Well, speaking Aromanian might of helped... greier 19:39, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
No, thanks. i got the whole point. i only speak the language, so i am not used in reading something that resembles it. also, my perfect (yes, i am showing off:p) knowledge of Latin helped me enough:) --Hectorian 20:47, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
What he's saying is that he doesn't know how to pronounce the letter â. I know which sound it is, but as it doesn't exist in Greek (or any other language I'm familiar with), I can't pronounce it correctly. --Tēlex 20:54, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
As Apostolos mentioned once, even the Bunuba have a regulated language... Hehh.. but what can you expect from a country which doesn`t recognise minorities, or where Albanians are fantasizing they are Greeks... 21:01, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hutsuls

Please stop vandalising the Hutsul article. All of the data you keep removing is verified and has been discussed.Faustian 22:28, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding edits made during July 13, 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for experimenting with Wikipedia. Your test worked, and it has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you want to do. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. Nick123 (t/c) 21:23, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Hello. Before making potentially controversial edits, such as those you made to 2006 Israel-Lebanon crisis, it is recommended that you discuss them first on the article's talk page. Also, make sure to use an informative edit summary for such edits. Otherwise, people might consider your edits to be vandalism. Thank you. --Pifactorial 21:55, 13 July 2006 (UTC)