Talk:Greenwich University

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Flag
Portal
 Greenwich University is within the scope of WikiProject Australia, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Australia and Australia-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page.
Stub This article has been rated as Stub-class on the quality scale.
Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale.
This article is supported by WikiProject Education in Australia.
Assessment comments

Greenwich University in Norfolk Island and the USA had instructors and examiners from some of the best universities in the USA, Australia,Canada and the United Kingdom. I dont think that it is right that if a PhD from one of the top ten universities of the world examined and granted a student from this university PhD status for it to be recinded. Greenwich was a potential threat to other Australian universities which never had to go through the same inspections. The panel in Australia inspected one thesis which was more than ten years old. Therefore, their findings were correct but flawed as an old thesis would not make a contribution significant enough to warrant a Ph.D. There are still PhDs from Greenwich University and people with other awards still working. The closure of Greenwich was against the principle of the free market and closing it down did not give it a fair chance to improve/change standards to meet the objectives of the Australian register. If the Australian government had confidence in their findings they would have made all Greenwich Degrees illegal but that is not the case. George Shippey The University of Greenwich London University should be the main article that this page redirects to. The current content should be side-lined as it is not important or relevant to most people.

—gorgan_almighty 18:01, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
Absolutely not. There is an article on the University of Greenwich at University of Greenwich. The article on Greenwich University belongs at Greenwich University. The disambig notice at the top is ample. Snottygobble | Talk 00:04, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
But the University of Greenwich in London is also known equally as Greenwich University. I suggest that the contents of this page be moved to Greenwich University (fraud) and be replaced with a proper disambiguation page. Or better yet a #REDIRECT to University of Greenwich, and a small disambiguation notice at the top of that page which points to Greenwich University (fraud). My proposal is in line with Wikipedia policy regarding the relevance and notability of disambiguated meanings. We will let the admins decide on this issue, so please do not remove the cleanup notice again.
—gorgan_almighty 09:52, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
The University of Greenwich is only known as "Greenwich University" to people who are wrong. "Greenwich University" is not its name. Greenwich University is an entirely different institution. I dispute that your proposal is in line with Wikipedia policy. I also dispute that admins are better qualified than non-admins to decide on this issue, which is probably unfortunate considering I am an admin myself. I won't revert your cleanup notice again, but I ask you not to take any action on this until we can establish a consensus. It seems that that we are unlikely to agree, so consensus probably means asking other people to comment. Snottygobble | Talk 12:16, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
I was a student at the University of Greenwich and I can assure you that the two names were used interchangeably. I only found this page while looking for an article on the University of Greenwich in the first place.
—gorgan_almighty 12:26, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
As Greenwich University was an Australian tertiary institution, I have posted a request for comments on the Wikipedia:Australian Wikipedians' notice board. Snottygobble | Talk 12:32, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
Also Wikipedia talk:Disambiguation. Snottygobble | Talk 12:43, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
And I have done likewise on Talk:University of Greenwich.
—gorgan_almighty 12:46, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't see any reason to change. A redirect is definitely a bad idea, although a disambiguation page would be ok. In my experience, UoG isn't often referred to as Greenwich University by people outside the uni in the same way that people talk about Oxford Uni, Sydney Uni, etc. And by the way, UoG is a University in London, but it hasn't got anything to do with the University of London/London University as implied by the first statement on this page. JPD (talk) 16:31, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

I vote to keep the article titles as is; people looking for the English university will easily find it from the dablink at the top. However, I recommend removing the term "diploma mill" from the dablink text, replacing it with a more NPOV term such as "nonaccredited institution". The allegation of its being a diploma mill in the body text should also be sourced. —Wahoofive (talk) 22:08, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
The University of Greenwich's site refers to the university as the University of Greenwich. The hoax university is clearly referred to as Greenwich University, for example here. This is done in the same way that fake Rolex watches are called "Rollex": I think their plan was to use a name which was similar enough to the real name to fool people, but nevertheless not the real name. The articles should stay where they are. --bainer (talk) 22:53, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
Precisely. The disambiguation header is clear enough, and anyone looking for the University of Greenwich will not have the slightest trouble locating that page. Ambi 04:54, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
Actually, Thebainer's comparison is not quite fair, since the name cannot be intended to refer to the real University of Greenwich, since it was used by the dodgy uni before UoG was itself a university/using that name. JPD (talk) 14:29, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

In my view UoG is referred to (erroneously) as "Greenwich University" often enough that a redirect for this term to that article is slightly preferable to the current situation. This does seem to be a notable enough diploma mill to have its own article (Greenwich University (unaccredited)), but it is after all defunct. Rd232 talk 23:42, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

The defunctness is of little relevance. By that argument George Washington should be moved to George Washington (former president) and the main article should contain the content of George Washington (movie). —Wahoofive (talk) 00:17, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

It really would depend on how often "Greenwich University" is used to describe the "University of Greenwich". Judging by how often people say "Sydney University" to mean the University of Sydney, or "Melbourne University" to mean the University of Melbourne, I would say it's not unreasonable to have Greenwich University redirect to University of Greenwich, if a similar pattern of usage is established for Greenwich University. Enochlau 14:22, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

As I said earlier, I don't think it is used as much outside the uni as the examples you give, but even if it were, that would make it a disambiguation page, not a redirect, shouldn't it? JPD (talk) 14:29, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
I just ran a Google search on "Greenwich University" ([1]) and there were results referring to both institutions. It's slightly biased to the failed one, and yes, it does seem that the use of "Greenwich University" to refer to the "University of Greenwich" is slightly less common than the examples I cited. So I'd say, keep everything as is? Enochlau 14:37, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
I agree to keep all as is. We're an encyclopedia, and should always refer to things in the proper manner. With the current disambig note, we are saying, "You might have been trying to find the UoG, but this isn't the right place." It's almost a courtesy thing, and I like it as is. A disambig page would be warranted if they were both officially referred to as Greenwich University, which they are not. Harro5 00:28, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

The correct name of a university is the name it is given in the constituting Act. In this case, the Greenwich University Act (Norfolk Island) 1998 helpfully instructs us that it is Greenwich University and not the University of Greenwich.

It matters not that the act was overridden by further legislation; the Department of Education, Science and Training refers to it as Greenwich University [2]

I agree with Harro; let's take this opportunity to be right. Only one university is formally known as Greenwich University, and it already resides at this page. We are nothing if not exactingly correct. (talk to) Caroline Sanford 09:04, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] John Bear

Bear is evidently too complex a character to be fairly summarised either as "the notorious degree mill operator Dr John Bear" or "world-famous education author Dr John Bear". To resolve this dispute I have removed both statements, created a short article on John Bear, and linked to it from this article. Snottygobble 23:33, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stubbed

This article lacks reliable sources and is drawing complaints. I have stubbed it and encourage editors to add only well-referenced material based on reliable sources. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 03:23, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Added governmental sources. Arbusto 05:55, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

It is ridiculous to use the Greenwich University topic to describe the four years of that school's existence that occurred outside the U.S., thus ignoring the previous thirty (30) American years.