Talk:Green energy

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[edit] Jargon

We need to be clear that "green energy" is jargon used by its proponents. If you'd chill on the edits for a minute I'll try and add some balance to this article. -- stewacide 19:42, 29 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Not quite so. In some countries, such as the Netherlands, there is an official 'green energy' scheme, and while opinions may differ as to the 'greenness'of various energy forms the term is used by everyone. Jens Nielsen 16:10, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nuclear power

Can anyone tell what rationelle they use to exclude nuclear power? It doesn't seem to be mentioned on the sites listed (or the parts of them I looked at).

Many and various. For a bit of a laugh, have a look at the reason given in this old version of the sustainable energy article that nuke is not renewable and compare with the current version. I agree that nuke is not renewable, but did the authors of this have any thought towards the logic of what they were saying? Or were they just repeating slogans?
The challenge is not to respond with the opposite POV. Andrewa 21:53, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
Perhaps we should change nuclear energy to nuclear fission, as opposed to nuclear fusion (not yet commercially possible) which has none of the major problems of fission (i.e. fission radioactive waste deteriorated very rapidly max. 2 years I think, compared to 240.000 yrs for fission waste) Arnoutf 12:36, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
Depending on weather fission uses a once through or an advanced reprocessing cycle as well as what type of neutron spectrum is utilised the waste decays to uranium ore levels anywhere between 300 and 10000 years. Nuclear fusion waste decays to similar levels within a few hundred years depending on the material used to build the reactor. The main advantage with fusion is that the actual quantity of waste is much less J.Ring 00:38, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
In the Netherlands, wehre there is an official green energy scheme, ãnd nuclear power is excluded - notably without any outcry. We don't need to try to determine what is 'green' or emission free, just determine the views and the facts.Jens Nielsen 16:10, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
This is possibly because the Netherlands only operate one nuclear reactor. I imagine if France were to introduce a similar scheme there would be more of a controversy. J.Ring 00:38, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Biomass

Biomass is included on allthe sites I read. Really, EVERYTHING is poluting in some respect (in fact things like solar power and wind turbines are far worse for the environment than conventional power sources when you take into account the energy used and pollution caused by thir production, but don't tell the environmentalists that...). -- stewacide

Wrong; wind turbines repay the energy used in their construction in a few months of use; less for the larger turbines. --James S. 16:22, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
There is always pollution arising from manufacture. However, it's important to get a sense of the proportions, and any life cycle comparison reveals that wind power is incomparably better than a fossil powered plant. Have a look at the eXternE study, for one example. Jens Nielsen 16:10, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Green electricity

From reading this article it is hard to understand why the title is "green electricity." The term is inexact, because not all the forms of energy listed are used to produce electricity. Geothermal energy can be used directly to heat buildings without being converted to electricity. Green energy would seem to me to be a more appropriate title (and is used in the body of the article). "Green energy" is also used about five times as much, according to Google. "Green electricity" tends to be used by power generation companies. Sunray 08:26, 2004 Jan 8 (UTC)

[edit] green electricity is physical non-existant for users.

The way commercial electricity is produced has received attention from the public due to substantial environmental effects. There are number of innovations in methods of production with higher costs compared to bulk production of electricity. To make these environmentally improved methods of production commercially attractive, "green energy" was invented as a commercial product. In an interconnected electricity grid there is no possibility for identification, so "green electricity" is and will remain an administrative product until it is the only type of energy left to use. Research is done with digital connected source-consumption systems bypassing the physical electricity grid. These new technical systems extent the present administrative systems in divers ways like on-line, near online and off-line. Egbert Bouwhuis at GPX --212.238.188.99 20:09, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Hydro

Hydro plants produce waste water? Oh really? --Wtshymanski 21:29, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

How about adding a secton about Hydro?? User:FLJuJitsu 00:33 05 October 2007 —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 04:31, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Controversy over Green Energy

  • There are many people who oppose "Green Energy". Their contention is that "Green Energy" has not been proven to have zero or near zero environmental impact. Some who hold these opinions also hold that everyone must reduce their own individual power consumption. Others who hold these opinions do not have any concern for environmental impact.
  • Many who oppose "Green Energy" point to what they lable as "environmentalists constantly shifting opinions" concerning what is "Green Energy". Until recently environmentalists claimed that large-scale hydroelectric power was a "Green Energy" source. At present supporters of "Green Energy" do not hold that hydroelectric power is a "Green Energy" source.

This strikes me as unreferenced POV. The phrase "environmentalists constantly shifting opinions" gets zero Google hits. We should gets some sources for these "many people who oppose" it. -Willmcw 19:58, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

yeah, you're right, this bit need some cleaning up. also, all the climate change and environmental activists that I know consider small scale hydro to be a clean energy source. --naught101 06:01, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "True ecological"

Green energy refers to environmentally friendly energy sources. In many contexts, burning biomatter qualifies (consider that the biomatter is broken down in any case, so it might as well be broken down in a power generator), as does hydropower (consider that after construction, little of the environment is harmed). Changing the article to read that only truly ecological energy sources can be considered green is probably a bad idea, as it gives the impression that no power source is actually green. -- Ec5618 16:21, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

The ecological damage from large-scale hydropower is vast. This is a good article on biodiesel and its inherent problems. My opinion is that efforts toward anything but wind power sources are at least partially wasted. --James S. 16:27, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
When we compare hydropower generation to the effects of a natural dam, little additional environmental damage is actually done. Consider that the local environment is changed, obviously, when a new dam is built, but that local wildlife adjusts quickly. After a few years little evidence of the 'vast' damage can be seen. Biogas, released by decomposing biomatter, is indeed a problem, though the same gas is released by natural dams, and other factors contribute a lot more biogas.
Biofuels contain chemical energy, which is released when the biomatter is broken down. When it is broken down in a power generator, this energy can be put to good use, while decomposition outside of power generators is lost. Certainly, biofuels have practical drawbacks, as your article suggests. According to your article, bacteria infect biofuel, and may clog up engines. Also, as the matter must be collected, or even grown, some energy is always lost, and an infrastructure must exist.
Wind energy is perhaps the cleanest alternative fuel in existence, and can indeed easily be scaled to very efficient scales. It does have its drawbacks, though none that I know of can't be solved through technological innovation. It may disturb airflow, changing the local environment, but there is no real difference from the same effects caused by islands and the like. A large field of 10MW turbines shouldn't be too difficult to build, and could generate that amount of power for a significant percentage of the time. -- Ec5618 17:10, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
Comparison of hydropower to a natural dam is hardly relevant. Natural dams of the size of Aswan, Grand Coulee, etc. are much rarer than hydropower dams. The impact on riparian habitat is significant and long lasting. (Just look at the salmon runs in the Pacific northwest of the USA.)
Biofuel Energy lost? If you asked the organisms doing the breaking down would they really say it was lost? Likewise, the nutrients and compounds resulting from the breakdown that are released into the ecosystem where that breakdown occurs (as compared to going up in smoke or slag). To say that this is lost is a highly egocentric non-ecological approach. Biofuels clearly produce significant pollution, so deserve to at least be on the questionable list. Zodon (talk) 08:22, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed guideline: National green energy suppliers & comparison sites

Due to the number of green energy suppliers around the world, and their varying shades of green, may I suggest that these may be best discussed and linked to in separate national articles, rather than here. This would also avoid the need for a potentially long list of internal and external links to such suppliers & comparison sites in this article.
For examples see Category:Green electricity by country.
See also the Wikipedia policy on external links.
Gralo 14:14, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Shouldn't this be merged with "Renewable Energy"?

I haven't looked over the article, but just from the name they seem like the same thing. The only difference that I can think of is that nuclear is not considered "renewable". --Tea and crumpets 03:48, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Renewable Energy 5 times higher hitrate on websearch

I agree with Tea and Crumpets. When searched wich both Google and Yahoo, "Renewable energy" totals 58 mln hits while "Green energy" only totals 12 mln hits. But is energy from 'green' and 'renewable' the same thing? On global average the green is somewhat more peculiar, a bit more green then the 'renewable' source. Many countries consider biomass as renewable, but not as green because it is used as a fuel for making steam, just like coal. Many people see green as the triplet of wind, solar and small hydro. Biomass is a major source, so it determines a lot on the whole. So, although I agree with Tea and Crumpets, I am not so keen on swapping the both definitions, I would rather plea for a more differentiated approach. Bouwhuise (talk) 23:12, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

They are the same thing, that's why this page should be a summary of the definitions of green energy and nothing else. -Theanphibian (talk • contribs) 14:05, 2 December 2007 (UTC)


I've been having this discussion with colleagues for a while. Not all renewables are green, and vice versa. Certain fuel cell technologies, for example, are "green" in the since of emissions, but use nonrenewable fuels. I think we should leave it at "green" referring to sources that have good environmental intent (regardless of whether they're that great or not). Renewable, literally meaning "able to renew," should be left to sources that renew naturally. There is obviously overlap there. I can argue the semantics on this for an hour. For example, I can argue that solar energy is not renewable, since nature doesn't put the light back in the sun, i.e., the sun will eventually burn out. Clearly, that is arguing to the point of absurdity, but it shows that neither term nor any definition will make everyone happy and that we need to read for context and intent. The fact is, nothing is completely without some environmental impact (e.g. hydro), so to attempt to label something as "green" or "brown" inevitably becomes a judgement call and semantics issue. It is better to leave it all out there. I don't think the number of hits on Google is that relevant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.174.115.137 (talk) 15:09, 28 March 2008 (UTC)