Talk:Great chain of being

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horses aer koolould this be capitalised to Great Chain of Being ? Dunc_Harris|☺ 21:05, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

"so American Christian culture conceives of angels in orders of archangels, seraphim, and cherubim, among others." There is no single American Christian culture. Who, specifically, in America classifies angels in this manner, and how is this somehow distinctly American? --Cholling 00:49, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

  • Agreed. As the article points out, this order long preceeds the founding of the USA. I can find no evidence it has any greater significance in American Christianity than in any other form. I removed it. Corvus 19:15, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

In American Anatomies, Robin Wiegman discusses the implication of this theory in the history of scientific racism: "This emphasis on mutability was especially important in the context of eighteenth-century obsessions with the Great Chain of Being.... In its reemergence as a racially based delineation, the Great Chain propelled countless discussions about the relationship between man and ape, crafting specific arguments for the African's cosmic subordinacy by positioning him as intervening between the two" (29). Information on the damage caused by the great chain theory seems lacking in this article.

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[edit] Fish And Birds Above Land Animals?

According to the pic, this is the case. Fish and birds are above land animals (such as mammals)? That doesn't really make much sense considering the fact that mammals are closer to humans. Then again religious philosophy doesn't have to make sense. Zachorious 05:36, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

As for birds, it might because most of them can fly(and send messages, which would make them somewhat similar to angels.) --Anglius 03:04, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
fish too have the same reason. some early prophets suggested the Kingdom of God might be in the sea.

[edit] ladybirds and dragonflies

In the article it states:

Below them come insects, with useful insects such spiders and bees, and attractive creatures such as ladybirds and dragonflies at the top,

However, both ladybirds and dragonflies are both also considered to be "useful insects" (at least today), and valued as predators that helps control the populations of harmful insects (dragonflies control mosquitoes; ladybirds control aphids). Could this have been a consideration at the time? —Pengo 00:47, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Picture

In the picture depicting the Great Chain of Being, it shows Satan falling on the right of the picture, and shows demons at the bottom. Is this meant to depict Satan as "lower than dirt"? In the Great Chain of Being, is Satan depicted as being at the bottom of the chain, or not part of the chain at all?--RLent 22:32, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Though I was unable to find solid references, Christian theologists such as C. S. Lewis (in The Screwtape Letters) often depict demons and Satan as a reverse hierarchy; lesser demons were above greater demons, who were above Satan (the lowest of all). Zhouzhenning 02:40, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Open Bracket

"In the natural order, earth (rock is at the bottom of the chain; these elements possess only the attribute of existence. Moving on up the chain, each succeeding link contains the positive attributes of the previous link, and adds (at least) one other. Rocks, as above, possess only existence; the next link up, plants, possess life and existence. Beasts add not only motion, but appetite as well." I'm not sure what was intended by placing the opening bracket there in the first place but the author never closed it.

Bracket closed and sealed with adhesive :) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Richard001 (talk • contribs) 23:24, 8 April 2007 (UTC).

[edit] LOTR analogy?!

Does anyone else find the LOTR analogy to be a bit distracting? jrcagle 17:11, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mythological animals and their places on the scale

Mythical creatures with four legs and wing were considered above birds but below four-legged animals, this being one of the reasons the system was abandoned. It was originally thought that these creatures must exist, but in the 1800s it became clear that they probably didn't. I don't have a source for this, but it's one of the main reasons for its demise and should be added. Djlayton4 | talk | contribs 18:19, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] History

There's not historical information in this article, talking about how the notion came about or where it originated. Or, at least, it's not obvious. Nate Berkopec 22:58, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Even looking at the linked articles, it seems that this could be a relatively recent name applied to any piece of writing that has the general idea. I'd like to see references to people who actually used "chain of being" or "scala naturae" about their own ideas rather than "somebody's something reflects the idea of the chain." For example, Milton's angels may well reflect "chain of being" but the phrase doesn't appear in Paradise Lost. Myridon (talk) 16:48, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Lower than dirt

The claim that

A reference to the Great Chain of Being that survives in today's English language is the insult that one is "lower than dirt," which refers to dirt's place at the bottom of the Chain.

Seems highly dubious to me. The metaphor of being "lower than dirt" is natural in many cultures, even those without the notion of a great chain of being. For example ancient near eastern texts (including Isaiah 10:6) talk of enemies being trampled under the feet of victors into dirt.