Talk:Great Storm of 1987

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The article isn't consistant about the number of people who died. Is it 18 or 19? Richard W.M. Jones 15:10, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Addressed, it is 19 confirmed in England and "at least 4" in France. I put this in the lead. Zerbey 16:56, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)


Contents

[edit] Atlantic Hurricanes category

Even though the article states that the storm wasn't a hurricane per se, should this article be placed in Category:Atlantic Hurricanes? --Andrew 20:23, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

No, for the reason you stated. It's not a hurricane nor should it be classified as such. Zerbey 20:42, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Comparable hurricane strength?

This article isn't consistant, comparible to Cat3 hurricane (as stated by air pressure) or, Cat2? --Grand Edgemaster 17:47, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

Actually, comparable to a Cat 3 by air-pressure, but by it's mean windspeed of 86mph (recorded at sea) it would rate as a Cat 1. To be honest though, with sustained winds at just over 50mph when itand and (mai and maxine

and loz and everyone) hit land, it doesn't even rate as a hurricane at that point. Reference for the windspeed comes from the Met Office (http://www.metoffice.com/corporate/pressoffice/anniversary/storm1987.html). It'd be nice to see this information included and linked properly, and also maybe having the search phrases "October Hurricane" and "October 1987 Hurricane" lead here (although again I do not know how).

Actually the wind speeds given by the Met Office are comparable to a low cat 2 hurricane. We don't use the same measurement period as they do at the NHC. Still there is no way it was a hurricane though so it isn't really relevant.

[edit] Michael Fish

I have added info about the popular myth that weatherman Michael Fish reassured British viewers that there was "no hurricane on the way". He was talking about Florida when he said that, in a link to a news item. Unfortunately for him, it always gets replayed out of context. 143.252.80.110 10:31, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

DOesn't that comment in the article need a citation?--206.165.32.108 14:20, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I have moved this section beneath "Effects" as it is arguably not as significant.Halsteadk 16:50, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree it needs citation. After lots of searching on this, these seem to be Fish's claims but there seem to be no video records available. 213.210.52.122 16:58, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

I am aware that Michael Fish is now making the claim, but I am unconvinced. My recollection was that severe weather had been forecast in France for France and Southern England, and a viewer who had heard the French forecast rang to enquire if it was true. The Met office at that point supposed that the storms would hit Spain, though some time later decided they might have a limited effect in England.Chemical Engineer 16:53, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

michael fish himself recently issued a podcast about his forecast via netweather.tv Crimsone 00:23, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
The tone of this section indicates that Michael Fish's subsequent claims are entirely true - it is more than a possibility that this was just a positive spin after the event. I've therefore edited the paragraph to (hopefully) sound more neutral. Also, I don't think the technicality on the use of the word hurricane is valid, as it may have been referring to hurricane force, which is perfectly valid in the UK. Halsteadk (talk) 20:52, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Simon LeVay's book, When Science Goes Wrong has an interview with the actual woman who had made that call to the office, Mrs. Anita Hart of Pinner (near London). She was talking about a caravan trip to Wales, not the Caribbean. And when told that Michael Fish insisted it was about Florida, she said, "That's absolute nonsense. That's not true at all. Obviously his story changed." US ISBN 9780452289321, page 48.

[edit] Mystery?

It's no mystery how a low could form that strong, it has happened on occasion, just rare. Also, I do not believe the explanation with the jet stream and Hurricane Floyd is anything but rubbish. -Runningonbrains 05:51, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I was just about to agree with you completely before quickly checking via google. It certainly seems odd that after all this time nobody would have been able to identify the precise reason for the deepening. Unfortunately though, the best explanation I've been able to find is here. It seems that not even the Met Office has an explanation on the site beyond simply saying that it originated in the Bay of Biscay and then deepened. Whether Floyd had anything to do with it is quite questionable being speculative as it is, and the assertion may have its roots (perhaps) in the popular mix-up of the two storms at the time. Being at the ideal position at the Jet Stream though seems like a plausible explanation. The above link at least contains a link to satellite images from formation to dissipation. I guess the only way to know for sure with regards to the relative position of the Jet and the Low would be to look up archived charts for that period - something I don't have immediately available. All in all, I think it right that the section should be disputed, though I don't know if it's nessecarily incorrect. Crimsone 09:48, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Three months on and it seems no-one proposes any correction and that there is, effectively, no dispute. I propose to remove the disputed tag although if any editor reading this can take the point further forward, it would be wonderful if they would edit to do so. In the meantime, I may have a tinker myself to address the points made above. Cheers. Chelseaboy 12:55, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sting Jet

There is a theory emerging that a phenomenon, which is being called a "Sting Jet", may have been responsible for the more intense winds and therefore more disastrous effects of this storm in 1987.

The idea seems to involve very dry air from the stratosphere being drawn into the cyclonic activity which then, by evaporating ice crystals and water droplets, cools further and becomes more dense. As a consequence, it then descends rapidly, possibly aided by jetstream activity, and forms a narrow band of very intense wind at the surface.

Does anyone have access to further information about or research into this phenomenon, in order to provide an appropriate link for this article?

WiffleTree 16:34, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, Yorkshiresky

WiffleTree 13:02, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hurricane comparison

Oh, come on peeps! I made that edit in the lede for two reasons - one was because any such comparison is grossly inaccurate and misleading, not becoming of an encyclopedic entry. The second was to make sure that it gave the facts about that comparison (and even there I could go further!), which to tell the truth, appears to me as enough to read like a joke were it not for real. I pointed out something that I'm sure would otherwise have been argued over quite fervantly had the point not been correctly made... and yet nobodies seen fit to remove the comparison... The mind boggles Crimsone (talk) 04:20, 1 June 2008 (UTC)