Talk:Great Offices of State

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Since when have there suddenly been five great offices of state? There were four until a few days ago. The chance has been made without any verifiable reference that I can see. If Lord Chancellor (a position which has existed for centuries) was not a great office of state last week, what exactly has changed? The fact he's now got responsibility for prisons doesn't cut it. These are supposed to be ancient and prestigious posts - Justice Secretary is certainly not the former and it is far too early to say whether it is the latter. ¶ 14:33, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Lord Chancellor has always been ancient and prestigious, but somewhat hampered by having to be held by a peer and a lawyer - Birkenhead's political career was, notably, rather damaged by being moved off to the legal track which culminated in his appointment as lord chancellor in 1919. I would assume that the supposed change has something to do with the fact that Straw, who is probably after Brown himself the most experienced and well-known member of the Cabinet, was given the position. I agree, though, that this is premature, at best. john k 15:03, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

As no one is defending the switch I've changed it back, but with a new section suggesting that there might be 5 offices in the future if a consensus among analysts emerged. The reference by Straw does not imply he thinks that it is now one of the Great Offices, only that he thinks it is a great office - otherwise, he would be implying that Lord Chancellor was always a great office in the past. Obviously this is all a bit subjective but I think the reversion means that the piece is more verifiable. ¶ 13:36, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

I was the one who added the references yesterday. I must admit, I found it surprising that there was suddenly mention of five Great Offices and Jack Straw's own comments were the only ones I could find in relation the fifth. He wasn't saying that the office of Lord Chancellor had become a Great Office (or great office, if you prefer), but that the new office of Secretary of State for Justice (which is completely separate even though currently held by the same person) had become one through its responsibilities previously held by the Secretary of State for the Home Office. In the end, though, there is no solid definition of this term, it's purely convention and down to people's own opinions. - Heavens To Betsy 07:08, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Alternatively, perhaps when Jack Straw said that he was, "the first holder of this great office of state to sit in the Commons", he meant it in the sense of his being a Great Officer of State.--Oxonian2006 (talk) 20:35, 25 March 2008 (UTC)