Talk:Great Goddess of Teotihuacan

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shes a second tier super heroine. Published by Marvel Comics.

[edit] How about some references??

It's hard to find scholarly or university-related sources that mentioned this Spider Woman. For example, when I google Teotihuacan Spider Goddess (without quotes), I can sort the first 12 hits into the following categories:

• 1 Comic book character
• 4 Wikipedia or Wikipedia mirror sites
• 4 New Age-type sites
• 2 fan-type sites
• 1 article from the University of California, San Diego

I get similar results with "Spider goddess mesoamerican" or "Teotihuacan Spider Woman" (the name of our article). This Karl Taube who is mentioned in the article seems to be one of the only scholars discussing a Teotihuacan Spider Woman, which makes me wonder how real this purported goddess is.

Now, I definitely realize how much ancient goddesses have been neglected by our culture in favor of the gods, being something of a neo-pagan myself . . . but I think we need something with a few more scholarly references, folks. Madman 22:42, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Taube's article is:

Taube, Karl

Journal of Latin American Lore 9 no 2 Wint 1983, p 107-189.

ISSN: 0360-1927

Publication Year: 1983

Yes she is real, Coe mentions her in Mexico (Coe, M.D. and R. Koontz, Mexico : From the Olmecs to the Aztecs. 5th ed. 2002, London: Thames & Hudson. 248 p.) - She is also thought to be the same spider woman seen all across Mesoamerica.

Posted by 69.86.57.172 3 October 2006

Thanks, I ran across Coe's mention last night. For what it's worth, Taube is a student/collaborator of Coe's. I will list this citation as a reference and I'm going to phrase the article to let folks know how widely accepted Taube's proposal is. Madman 13:13, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

I edited this article and reduced the "gee whiz" tone of the article somewhat. I do believe that a more appropriate title would be "Great Goddess of Teotihuacan", since that is a bit more neutral a name, but decided not to move it (today). I also added a dissenting viewpoint. This article could use an image. Madman 17:13, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Moved to Great Goddess

I moved this article to the more neutral Great Goddess of Teotihuacan, primarily because it is more neutral. The name Spider Woman is the creation, as mentioned, of Karl Taube and is not completely accepted by the archaeological community (e.g. Coe: "The goddess identified by Karl Taube as the Spider Woman" (p. 100)."). Madman 16:12, 17 September 2007 (UTC) -- P.S. Still looking for image

I guess I am OK with the name change, although a number of sources (incl. Taube, Miller) suspect that the 'Great Goddess' iconography actually subsumes several distinct entities, including the one with Teotihuacan Spider Woman characteristics. There might yet be a case to distinguish between these, but we should probably first explore this mutability further in the article, above and beyond the current sentence under 'Dissenting Viewpoints'.

I don't think that Coe or others are necessarily poo-poohing Taube's nomenclature, and AFAIK others are happy enough to call the specific depictions of a figure with a fanged nose-bar thus. --cjllw ʘ TALK 05:43, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

I understand your concerns. I do believe that Great Goddess is a more encompassing title. I would love to research this more, but I have difficulty obtaining papers published in academic journals. Would you have access to Taube's paper, or others?

Also, I just today uploaded a photo of a reproduction of a "Great Goddess" mural, and attached it to the article. This is not the Spider Woman aspect (I don't think). Any help in providing more detail would be appreciated. Madman 03:40, 20 September 2007 (UTC)