User talk:Grandmaster/Ehud

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You are investing too much energy into this. Ehud Lesar is a Jewish name, he had Jewish userboxes, and added himself to the Jewish Wikiproject and contributed to some Jewish related articles[1][2]. The reason why a Jewish name was used in this case was to escape suspicion, just the way he imitated Armenian[3], English[4], Russian[5] and Jewish[6] personalities before. You can turn this in any way you want, the result will be the same. Agarunov is an Azerbaijani Jewish name, but Lesar isn't. You know this, so why are you keep bringing it back?

Geycha, you are distorting what has been said, we already referred to the fact that someone added it so it has been discussed in one occasion. It was Beland's post as a result of the fact that some anonymous person added it. Khoikhoi's addition (which has Geycha in parentheses next to the Turkic official name, while Ehud and Adil have chosen the less notable of the two) was a reintroduction and in the main, we are talking about the discussion page, and the reference to the pre-Soviet alleged independence. You are selecting evidences, changing their natures to then reply to them. The reference to Goycha was mostly brought because of the independence information, the information of the talkpage, was in allusion to both Ehud and Adil discussion. Not only were those two calling it Geycha (and not the more notable Turkic variant) but in the context of some pre-Soviet independence. You're twisting the evidence and your reply has nothing to do with the evidence presented.

Khojali genocide claim, Grandmaster you're twisting it, the Written Declaration No. 324 was the work of lobbyists (eg. Adil Baguirov). It was prepared written by İrtemçelik (from Turkey) in April 26, as a countermeasure to the April 24 submitted written declaration on the Armenian genocide. The quote you provided doesn’t even qualify as notable nor credible and should not have been included here to begin with. Some of the non-Azerbaijani, non-Turkish members who signed it, were mostly from caucuses or interest groups associated with either Azerbaijan or Turkey. (the rest, which amount under 5 persons and who signed the Armenian genocide written declaration have signed it because of cheap tactics by those who prepared it, accusing them to take sides) The text is actually garbage and the claim of genocide is not specific to Khojali, any administrator can read the content and see its value.

So yes, no one other than Azerbaijani ultra-nationalists or lobbyists (like Adil Baguirov) call it genocide. And of course no Jew would call Khojali a genocide nor compare the event to the millions of Jews who died in Europe. No Jew would support and follow a discussion initiated by Atabek, comparing Auschwitz with Khojali. So as you see, picking the evidences and posting it out of context doesn’t do you any help. It discredits your evidences. Your claim that Drastamat was not Adil is unconvincing, I propose you to reread the evidences provided, those series of socks (all attributed to Drastamat), those who were not banned returned later to replace DrAlban after his banning (who was a confirmed sock of Adil), reappearing minutes after DrAlban was banned. I have a chart of their contributions merged so does Fedayee which confirms this.

Texas population is huge and comparing it with the Armenian population in California does not make sense. There are more Armenians in California alone than Azeris in the entire US. What matters here is the Azerbaijani population in Texas.

The rest was addressed here by Fedayee. VartanM (talk) 21:51, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

VartanM, regarding your ethnically divisive claim above, such as:

• And of course no Jew would call Khojali a genocide nor compare the event to the millions of Jews who died in Europe. No Jew would support and follow a discussion initiated by Atabek, comparing Auschwitz with Khojali.

Please, refer to the article published just about a week ago in LA Jewish Journal [7] called "Azeri Jews: Centuries of coexistence in Azerbaijan", and particularly, pay attention to the following quotes from an Azeri Jew:

• He points to signs on the wall with lists of names, those of Jews who died in the long fight against the Armenians: a few dozen
• "If there is a war between Armenia and Azerbaijan," Abramov says, "many Jews will die. Please, clarify that to the world. In the war for Karabakh, the first fallen hero was Jewish. Send the message."

So, I hope in light of these quotes by Azerbaijani Jew, you won't make generalizations that you make here, and will assume good faith.

Also, genocide is any act, taken with a clear attempt to exterminate a group of people based on their certain ethnicity, and the definition is not based on number of victims. Khojaly was a genocide, because it was an act of mass murder of nearly 1000 Azeris and which resulted in extermination of the entire Azeri population of the city. But that's not the discussion for here, I just brought it up, so that you stop this WP:SOAP here and move it to appropriate page.

There is a substantial population of Azeris in Texas as well, but again, this has no relation and serves as no evidence to whether Ehud is Adil or not. All Grandmaster was pointing out is that your claim is as ridiculous that using it all Armenian contributors in California must be accused of sockpuppetry because of User:Artaxiad - [8]. Atabek (talk) 03:09, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Is there any administrators who is willing to endorse this new motion [9] to put an end to Atabek's disruptive conduct? The only person who is soapboxing here is you, loading pages of irrelevancies including irrelevant policies and accusing others. Your link doesn’t include anything in that article calling Khojali a genocide, in fact there is not a single work which calls it as such. Your fabrications about the entire city population being exterminated is even contradicted by the official Azerbaijani government claims, which claim the city's population to have been of 6000, and from it under 500 victims. You never waste the occasion to make the promotion of your positions regardless of how irrelevant they are in situations such as this. Why am I not amazed that you skipped the claimed of the Algerian genocide? To which, second link on google points to the journal Adil contributes to [10] The first link is on youtube added by AlgeriaTurk. If one checks the hits on google, we see that most links are related to Turkish authors. ATAA and several Turkish organizations have been lobbying for it, and Adil is himself member of those organizations.

Divisive? You are the only divisive member here. Quoting from Jewish people, attempting to prove they take sides. You also claim there is substantial population of Azeris in Texas, yes there is, but how many? More than or less than a 1000? There are 600,000 Armenians in California, you can't compare the two. Before answering, consider that editors who read this are not that dumb to believe that you are actually providing any counter arguments. VartanM (talk) 04:15, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

VartanM, assume good faith. The number of people in each state is irrelevant to the question whether Ehud is Adil, which is the main subject. I wasn't the one who brought Khojaly talk to this discussion page, just scroll up to see where you started it. The people which I quoted are Jewish ethnically, but they're citizens of Azerbaijan. They do have a right to express their view, as much as I do have right to quote them from an article, questioning your arguments. And provide evidence, as to how my message above was disruptive. Atabek (talk) 05:12, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Indeed, how come that Atabek is disruptive? He is no more disruptive than Fedayee, who compiled a whole page of baseless claims to accuse another user of sockpuppetry without any real proof. Why is it ok to do so, and not ok to contest baseless claims? Grandmaster (talk) 06:06, 16 January 2008 (UTC)