Talk:Grand Prix motorcycle racing

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[edit] Requested move

  • Grand Prix motorcycle racing → ? —(Discuss)— This article is about the world championship. the FIM calls it Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix I think that's a good title. Grand Prix motorcycle racing is much more than the world championship, a lot of national series that have Grand Prix motorcycle racing classes (usually 125GP) —Chris Ssk talk 10:25, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
Is there a reason why the article wasn't simply called MotoGP? Roguegeek (talk) 23:51, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
MotoGP is only one of the 3 classes of the Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix. there is also 125cc and 250cc and the article is about all 3. Though the only info on the 125cc and 250cc classes is in the infobox. Chris Ssk talk 01:06, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
Are there good, reliable sources that state "Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix" is some kind of official name? Roguegeek (talk) 07:49, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
I did some further investigating and this is what I found. The name of the championship is called MotoGP. MotoGP consists of three different grand prix catagories; MotoGP, 250, and 125. The way MotoGP officially breaks this down can be found directly on the official site. To me, that's about the best resource you can find out there on a very non-subjective subject. I would suggest changing the name of this article to MotoGP. Thoughts? Roguegeek (talk) 07:54, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
The FIM, the governing body of motorcycle racing calls the championship Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix. I think the most reliable source is the championship's rule book (classes are listed in page 13 of the rule book (17 of the pdf)) . Also other press releases about GP [1] (I can't get my search results to show in the link but if you select GP as Subject and search, all the press releases will have "FIM Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix" as a subject). Chris Ssk talk 11:49, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
Chris, I understand that the official FIM documentation says one thing, but universal usage among teams, riders, fans and the official site itself prominently go with "MotoGP". Absolutely no one searching for information about MotoGP is going to Google "Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix". I think this is a case where universal usage trumps an obscure reference, and anyone looking for info about 125 and 250 racing will know to look in MotoGP because those classes are subsets of the whole series, universally known as MotoGP. I realize the number of Google hits is not a final arbiter, but "RRWCGP" gets 727 hits to MotoGP's 13,900,000, about a 20,000-to-1 ratio. --Rubber Nipple Salesman (talk) 15:28, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
Personally, I don't think it should have been changed from Grand Prix motorcycle racing. Being a "generic" name, it encompassed the old racing series' with the new. Season reviews used to be called 1993 Grand Prix motorcycle racing season. You can't say 1993 MotoGP season because it wasn't called MotoGP back then. Now we'll have to differentiate season article syntax depending on what year it was. Not ideal in my opinion. ♫ ψadems ♫ (talk) 16:58, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
Wadems, good point. Ultimately, I'd vote in order of preference to: 1) Change this article title to "MotoGP", and go back and change the relevant seasons (I'm pretty sure 2000 was when the use of "MotoGP" started by Dorna); 2) Change the title back to "Grand Prix motorcycle racing".
Chris, I like that you're going by official documentation, but Dorna's role as owner of commercial rights to the series might also give them a semi-official role in giving the series its public name. The prominent "MotoGP" logo in the article is testament to its recognition. --Rubber Nipple Salesman (talk) 20:32, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
I'm not the one that made the move I put the request up and it went unopposed so someone else made the move. I didn't request a move to Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix, I only suggested it as a possible title. MotoGP only came to be in the 2000s before that the championship was more commonly known as WGP and because Grand Prix motorcycle racing is more than the world championship. I had the intention of creating a separate Grand Prix motorcycle racing article about the racing discipline. Like there is an article about Motorcycle speedway and another about the Speedway World Championship, Superbike racing and Superbike World Championship, Enduro and World Enduro Championship
Also note that typing MotoGP either in Wikipedia's search or Google, Yahoo!, etc. finds the MotoGP redirect and automatically links to this page so I don't think it makes the page harder to find.Chris Ssk talk 21:44, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
My experience with looking at the Google results was initially missing the Wikipedia link to the page because it had an unfamiliar name. Especially now that the new official site has been updated and just about ruined, the Wikipedia MotoGP pages are going to be that much more popular.--Rubber Nipple Salesman (talk) 15:36, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

My vote is to, at the very least, change it back to Grand Prix motorcycle racing. Looks like enough editors here think it's a decent move. Ultimately, I'd like to see it simply called MotoGP because that's the name everyone knows it as and that's the name people are going to search under when requesting this specific article. So, change it back? Roguegeek (talk) 22:29, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Seconded, change it back to Grand Prix motorcycle racing, no matter what the FIM calls it, especially in case sponsors are added, as in Bridgestone Presents The Champ Car World Series Powered By Ford.-- Matthead  Discuß   23:08, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Since we can't move on our own, I just sent in the request to have it moved by an administrator. Roguegeek (talk) 23:15, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
What about renaming it to Motorcycle Grand Prix? Chris Ssk talk 23:49, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
If we're going to go to the trouble to rename, I vote going with "MotoGP." It should have been done years ago, really.--Rubber Nipple Salesman (talk) 15:32, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
The trouble(s) I have with "MotoGP" are (1) there could be confusion between the MotoGP series and the specific class which used to be the 500s until it was changed in 2003. (2) Even if that confusion is overcome, a reader could think it is only about the series since 2003, and not all the way back to the old racing from the 1940s/'50s. I would be less opposed if the article was split; MotoGP for the modern series, Grand Prix motorcycle racing for the historical stuff.
The page should be moved though. The current title is definitely not what most people know the name as (it gets less than 700 hits in Google, compared with 13,000 for "Grand Prix motorcycle racing" and 1.1m for "MotoGP"). We do not use the "official" name, we use the common name. Previous move request was a bad one for an admin to have moved, especially since I cannot find the old discussion. It should have been marked as incomplete/contested. Welly bump fandango (talk) 21:19, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Rename

Now that the can of worms is open, let's use this section to vote on: 1) Keeping the name Grand Prix motorcycle racing, or 2) Changing to MotoGP. Let's also give the voting a decent amount of time, and not do anything until a few weeks have passed.

Grand Prix motorcycle racing

  • I feel it should be Grand Prix motorcycle racing; it's more generic since these articles cover GP racing from 1949 and not just the MotoGP era. ♫ ψadems ♫ (talk) 15:31, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
I agree with your rationale for this and would be fine with this article title as well. Roguegeek (talk) 21:22, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
  • As Wadems says, the generic name is better. It may be MotoGP now, but was not always named as such and so an article encompassing the history of the sport should be named accordingly. Cpl Syx (talk) 20:47, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

MotoGP

  • I vote MotoGP. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rubber Nipple Salesman (talk • contribs) 18:34, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
  • MotoGP is the proper name if you ask me as well. Roguegeek (talk) 20:57, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix

  • I like Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix as that is the proper name of the championships. Chris Ssk talk 13:49, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Tyre v tire

Now, usually I work out these sorts of arguments based on the location of the subject of the article (UK article, UK spelling etc). Should we have a vote on which spelling we should have, because at the moment the article has both and looks sloppy. Personally, being British I would go for tyre, but I'm not fussed. What we do need is consistency. Ged UK (talk) 19:21, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

I usually like to let Google help us out in these situations to determine which is the more common/popular term.
Both are fine, but in this case I would go with "tire" for consistency sake. Thoughts? Roguegeek (talk) 19:45, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
I would vote tire being AmeriCanadian but I think tyre looks cooler. ;-p ♫ ψadems ♫ (talk) 20:29, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
While I'm more comfortable looking at "tire", the MOS mentions that "In the early stages of writing an article, the variety chosen by the first major contributor to the article should be used, unless there is reason to change it on the basis of strong national ties to the topic," so I vote for tyre.--Rubber Nipple Salesman (talk) 16:00, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
As per the guidelines, if either is acceptable it should be the case that the first major use is made the standard for the remainder of the article's lifetime, and so I believe it should be tyre. Cpl Syx (talk) 20:49, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Consistency seems to be something we all agree on. I'm going to make the initial change right now to "tire" for consistency sake, but we can make another change later based on the outcome of this discussion. Roguegeek (talk) 18:00, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 125cc, 250cc or 125 cc, 250 cc

How should the GP classes be written? according to WP:MOS, values and unit symbols are spaced but these are not just that, they are also names of the classes, the subject did come up in the past but I dont think consensus was ever reached Chris Ssk talk 22:56, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

It really doesn't matter to me. I only changed it due to WP:MOS, but I definitely see your side of it. You're claiming "250cc" to be a proper noun. I think if that's the case, it should be "250cc". Roguegeek (talk) 23:17, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
I stand by my original comments: no space. Plus, using the trusty Google method, "500cc" gets 2.84m hits and "500 cc" gets 1.12m hits. Not to mention when you search for "500 cc", the search actually asks you: "Did you mean: 500cc." ♫ ψadems ♫ (talk) 23:20, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
I vote no space.--Rubber Nipple Salesman (talk) 15:29, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
I'm good with no spaces as well, but I want to clear up something for Wadems. Google method is good to identify popularity of a term. I'm saying it's good to make this change here because "250cc" is a proper noun as per the MotoGP organization. If it wasn't, there would be no doubt about what to do here as the policy and style guides state it should be shown as "250 cc". Roguegeek (talk) 18:04, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
I was being facetious about Google. Not that I care what the MOS says either. It looks better with no space, regardless. Even if I was referring to volume, I'd still say 50cc because I'm a rebel, man! ;-p ♫ ψadems ♫ (talk) 18:18, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
No space please! Ged UK (talk) 19:37, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
No space is how it is defined by the governing body, as they are not just engine capacities but also the titles of the racing class. According to the MoS there should be a space, but these are in fact proper nouns as used by MotoGP, as Roguegeek said above. As such, no space is what should be used here. Cpl Syx (talk) 13:03, 26 May 2008 (UTC)