Talk:Goulash

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Contents

[edit] Inviting Variations

I changed the heading "Adaptations" to "North American Variations" - since, 1) the products described are not adaptations but variations on the goulash theme (you can make a perfectly authentic Hungarian "gulyas" with North American ingredients, so there's no need for adaptation to locally available ingredients - thus, it *is* a question of variation, not adaptation), and 2) the only variations discussed in the section are North American variations - as common in Canada as in the United States, and there are undoubtedly Mexican variations, too (which are probably hotter than the Hungarian original, by the use of chili peppers hotter even than hot Hungarian paprika). However, there may be other variations of goulash from other parts of the world. I would imagine that at least Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, and Argentina would have some serious diversions from the Hungarian original, if not many other countries to which Hungarians have emigrated over time and made their culinary contributions. I would not be surprised if there were even an Indian version of gulyas, thought it would most likely be made with lamb instead of beef (as strict Hindus will not eat beef, but they will eat lamb). So, I have tagged the section with an invitation for other people to add variations from other parts of the world -- and, if they do, the current heading can be changed again.

Meanwhile, here is my mother's recipe for goulash: Brown a pound of lean hamburger with a medium sized diced onion. This can be done in the kettle itself to save time and cut down on the washing-up. Add chopped or diced green pepper, paprika, and one or two large tins of sliced or whole tomatoes (cutting them up in the process). Heat thoroughly to a simmer. Add elbow or shell macaroni and continue to cook until the macaroni is done. Serve hot. Afterward, the macaroni will continue to absorb liquid even after it cools. The leftover goulash can thus be served for lunch the next day as a cold casserole (provided the meat used was sufficiently lean that there is little or no animal fat residue on the macaroni).

[edit] Meanings

The origin of the word is coming from the method of cooking. The word Pörkölni(verb) means:to burn a tiny bit or to calcinate, and Pörkölt means: a tiny bit burnt or calcinated. When you prepare this dish you use a special pot, called: Bogracs. You put the ingredients(meat, onion, some fat/oil) into the Bogracs and put on a fire. You must not put the water in by the time the meat is burnt a tiny bit. In addition: the Pörkölt is widespreadly made of: beef, mutton, pork and poultry(the best thing is to use a real old cock, this one is often served with noodle flavoured with cottage cheese). There is another special Pörkölt, which is made of beeftripe. This is my favourite if I could say that. Thanks.


It might be worth noting that the Hungarian gulyás is actually a soup. Pörkölt is closer to what is called goulash (in Western Europe, at least). --Isk_s

Or not. At least not around where I was born (Alföld). "Gulyásleves" (goulash soup) is not "gulyás" (goulash). --grin ✎ 22:07, 2004 Aug 7 (UTC)
I find the article informative, balanced and accurate (to the best of my knowledge). However, in order to ease confusion we Hungarian neighbours (I am from Croatia) live in, it would be nice to compare goulash to Paprikás and Pörkölt, with special attention given to possibility of addition of sour cream. :) (BTW, the meal that article referes to as Slovenian "Partizanski golaž" is in Croatia simply called "Krumpir gulaš", meaning goulash with potatoes.) --bonzi 17:45, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
if you put potatoes in pörkölt it will turn into paprikáskrumpli, --80.99.42.236
No it won't, it'll turn into a sorry excuse for gulyásleves. Paprikáskrumpli contains sausage, not stew meat. Marti 72.81.31.6 20:35, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
To Bonzi: in broad terms, pörkölt is made (almost*) entirely of meat (which can be of any animal, not just beef), and contains the most paprika. Gulyás introduces potatoes and/or vegetables (NOT tomatoes, though), and contains slightly less paprika. Gulyásleves adds more water to gulyás, and definitely contains both potatoes and soup veggies. Paprikás goes back to being almost entirely meat (usually chicken), is thickened with sour cream and flour, and contains the least amount of paprika, despite the name. *All of these dishes start with browning some chopped onions in the hot fat of your choice, so even a completely unadulterated honest-to-goodness pörkölt is not 100% carnivorous. Marti 72.81.31.6 20:35, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV

It is hard to find a good gulyás in Hungary, and it is close to impossible to get one outside Hungary

This sounds like it need some NPOV work. --Notthe9

no kidding, this article is way too defensive. this encyclopaedia's job isn't to exhaustively and repetitively address misconceptions, but instead is to catalogue facts. hamstar

Please specify what you mean. I don't think it is debatable that if something exist in original form, and it is sold nearly everywhere else as something completely different then we could say "it is pretty much impossible to get the original out there". (Like I would sell tomato soup called "beef steak", which is close to the case you asked about.) I don't know about you but I happen to be a Hungarian and tried "goulash" in several countries, and most often than not it was (to quote Douglas Adams) "almost, but not quite, entirely unlike goulash". :-) I am really open and curious to find countries where this food happen to be the same as the original one. --grin ✎ 09:22, 2005 May 12 (UTC)
Try the Aztek restaurant in Taiwan. They make perfect gulyásleves. They call it 耍笑 though. --80.98.250.126
It isn't enough that one can suppose something could be or is likely to be true; it must be verifiable. This article (as of now) fails that test. Also, everybody, please remember to sign your posts. Thanks. --DragonHawk 02:15, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
I must say that this is a bit troublesome. I actually came to wikipedia to help settle an arguement with co-workers, most of whom are of Italian decent, while I am of German. I understood goulash to be made with a small portion of meat, with potatoes and lots of cabbage. My co-workers insisted that it was made with ground beef, tomato sauce and pasta. I have found recipes on-line for it both ways. So, with that in mind, we truely need to locate the 'origins' of the word, then define it. However, we should note in the page that the ingredients can change from region to region.
I am from Austria, and know the situation in several other central European regions: The classical Gulash definitely neither contains potatoes nor cabbage. Potatoes are contained only in "Erdäpfelgulasch" which is quite a different beast both in ingredients and preparation. With cabbage you get "Szegediner Gulasch". I have NEVER seen a version with both potatoes and cabbage. Nahabedere 08:32, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Segedinsky gulas

Travelling in the former Austria-Hungary, one can frequently spot "segedinsky gulas" on the menus (not only in the Czech Rep, but in Slovakia, Slovenia, Austria as well). I tried once, but it is not the "traditional" goulash, and what's more, it is not known in its supposed place of origin, Szeged. It would be interesting to know something about this goulash-version. --195.56.49.35

In Szeged (or anywhere else in Hungary), ask for Székelygulyás. Which brings up another point: It's a mistake to translate the name of this dish as "Transylvanian goulash": it was actually named after a person named Székely, not for the ethnicity/region. The story goes that Mr. Székely (I'm vaguely recalling that he was an actor, at least some sort of public figure) went into a restaurant very late, and the only things left in the kitchen were some pörkölt and a bit of stewed sauerkraut, so the chef combined the two, heated them up, and served it forth with a generous dollop of sour cream. The guy liked it so much that he came back the next night and asked for the same thing, and it kind of went from there. (The restaurant must've either been in or named Szeged, which would explain the appelation this dish goes by in Austria.) Marti 72.81.31.6 20:45, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] With noodles

My dad makes Goulash with noodles- is that common or did he make that up himself? -albrozdude 22:23, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

It is common in North America. Betty Crocker's Cookbook gives a Goulash recipe with elbow mac, as well as another recipe, called Hungarian Goulash, which is _somewhat_ closer to the one described in the article but still seems to have been Americanized to some extent. What is common in Hungary I have no idea. --Jonadab, 2006 Sep 06

Putting noodles into the goulash-soup is very common in Hungary. It is also very common to serve pörkölt (the meal on the picture) with noodles instead of potatoes. In fact pörkölt with noodles is much more common than pörkölt with potatoes. In Hungary the most common gulyás is a soup with meat and potatoes and of course paprika, paprika-powder, onion, salt, pepper, garlic, celery. People eat it with white bread. The other common meal is pörkölt made of meat, onion, paprika, paprika-powder, salt and pepper and optionally some red wine. It is usually served with noodles and salad. American cabbage salad tastes great with it. Dry red wine goes well with these meals.

Putting certain kinds of noodles into goulash-soup is common in some areas of Hungary. (Csipetke, where my mom's from.) Everything/where else is heresy. :) Márti 72.81.31.6 20:55, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cooking time and Goulasch affection

PPOV-1: "Nowadays, it is also often eaten at restaurants, because its long cooking time makes it impractical for working families to prepare at home!."
PPOV-2: The cooking time is not an impractical factor at all! If people eat the dish more frequently at restaurants, perhaps it has to do more with habits and lack of interest or knowledge than anything else, and that restaurants often prepare the dish days in advance, which makes it a lot more tastier as the dish 'matures' (especially turning even 'tough' - and cheaper - meat wonderfully tender) until it is reheated and served later on.
This preparation could actually be very practical also for a working family, as the goulasch (or any other similar dish) after 'maturing' can be divided into smaller portions and put in the freezer. Taken out in suitable portions and heated up again in a micro-oven gives a wonderfully tasty, nourishing and quick meal.
Totally it's time-saving, inexpensive and delicious. That's a yum habit for soul and body! --Profero 07:53, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Citation Needed"?!

What is with the overabundance of "Citation Needed" tags in the "North American variations" section? Virtually anyone who grew up on homecooking in the American Northeast can attest to those facts. The following example of this tag is completely ridiculous: "its inclusion in popular cookbooks in the twentieth century, e.g., in Betty Crocker's Cookbook. [citation needed]" Just open a Betty Crocker cookbook; how much more citation do you need?

"The addition of noodles or pasta (elbow macaroni being particularly popular), which does not so much thicken the product as absorb the juice of the tomatoes. [citation needed]" We need to cite a source that pasta absorbs sauce? Or is this referring to the popularity of elbow macaroni? The one other point I can see being in dispute is the use of tomato juice in American goulash as opposed to tomato sauce. I don't think we really need to cite a source for the statements that American goulash is different that the original Hungarian dish as the article just outlined the differences between the two. 192.82.6.41 21:21, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sausage?

Someone's mixing their metaphors, or recipes. Gulyásleves never contains sausage, at least not in my experience, or in any of the cookbooks I own. Paprikáskrumpli, which can be considered to be kind of like a pörkölt made with potatoes instead of meat, is the one that needs some "dirty potatoes", i.e. sausage. What gulyásleves DOES need, and is not mentioned anywhere currently, is soup veggies: carrots, parsnips, celery, etc. (in addition to the potatoes, of course). Then, if you make a gulyásleves with all of the usual ingredients except the meat, you get hamisgulyás "fake goulash". From what I gather, this is similar to the "partisan goulash" mentioned elsewhere. Márti72.81.31.6 20:10, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Meat is cut into chunks, seasoned with salt, pepper and paprika, and then browned in a pot with oil.

I do not believe you can season meat with paprika and then brown it - the paprika would burn, spoiling the taste of the sauce with bitter taste and its apperance with black specks of burned paprica.Most receipts for paprica flavoured dishes I know recommend adding paprica at a later stage of the cooking - either lowering the temperature before putting in the paprica, or mixing paprica separately with fat at a moderate temperature and then adding it into the stew. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Georgius (talk • contribs) 16:15, 27 April 2007 (UTC). Sorry for forgetting to sign--Georgius 16:30, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Allan Sherman's "recipe"

Allan Sherman's "recipe" for Hungarian Goulash (in his parody song "Hungarian Goulash No. 5") is actually self-referentially recursive, since among the various national or ethnic dishes mentioned (which at the end you're supposed to put together "in one big mish-mosh") is Hungarian Goulash itself (the first item mentioned in the song, in fact)... so you need to make some first in order to add it as an ingredient to itself. *Dan T.* 18:26, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gulyás festival

There's a goulash festival each year in Szolnok, Hungary. Altough it's not as popular as the Halászlé festival in Baja, I think we should include it, I just don't know where does it fit. Should I open a new section? What should be the section title? Here's the (half)-English website

They also mention an International Goulash Soup Club (Danish: Det Internationale Gulyásleves Selskab) in Denmark, but I have no information about them. --Hu:Totya (talk!) 15:37, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Goulash != American Chop Suey

Goulash is not the same thing as American Chop Suey! Nor is there any evidence that the terms are used interchangeably here in New England. In fact, growing up here, I'd say that chop suey is closer to a sloppy joe (without a bun) combined with macaroni. Chop suey is not even close to goulash - it's a pasta dish. Goulash isn't a pasta dish... and it never has macaroni, not even here in New England. Fuzzform (talk) 00:38, 9 May 2008 (UTC)