Talk:Goat

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[edit] Popular Culture - edits

The reference to American vernacular was edited in such a fashion that its original meaning was lost. The title of "goat" is not a stigma like "albatross" in classic literature, rather it is given through simple observation of a competitive game. The term began in a sports context, but as with many such terms, has transferred into mainstream culture. I edited the reference to try to keep both the original and modified meanings. Stringbean 16:06, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Removed comment per WP:BLP

To begin with this information is not important to gain an understanding of goats in general. This article is about goats, not about rumors about people and goats.
Now to the issues about a living person. WP:BLP says:
"Biographical material must be written with the greatest care and attention to verifiability, neutrality and avoiding original research, particularly if it is contentious."
The source for this information is a blog. It is not a reliable secondary source of information. WP:BLP goes on to state:
"Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid; it is not our job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives."
This information is sensationalist and if this material is in the article, wikipedia is spreading unsubstantiated rumors about a living person.
WP:BLP also states:
"Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material — whether negative, positive, or just questionable — about living persons should be removed immediately and without discussion from Wikipedia articles,[2] talk pages, user pages, and project space."
As such I am removing the rumor from this page as well. If you have any concerns about this please ask the question on the BLP noticeboard. Jons63 (talk) 20:29, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] some things that may be worth mentioning:

  • I vaguely remember reading about how goats rip grass up rather than eat just the top like sheep -- thus they can accelerate soil erosion in areas succeptible to it

Goats are browsers, not grazers. They prefer to eat things high up, like leaves. If they have a choice, they will eat the tops of tall grass and bushes. If there is nothing to eat, they will pluck the grass out of the soil. But it is not their preference and not their nature.

  • on the subject of children as goat herds: there are many such in European fiction (fables such as "the boy who cried wolf", Heidi, etc)
  • Goats do not eat everything. In fact, they are extremely fastidious animals who prefer to browse woody shrubs and trees rather than grass. They will not eat food that has been contaminated by their own droppings, and they will become very dehydrated rather than drink water that has been fouled. This choosiness works to their benefit as they are less susceptible to parasites when given the opportunity to eat their preferred diet.

They sniff at every morsel of food before eating it. They are so fastidious that they will not eat food that has been nibbled at by one of their fellow herd members, unless, of course, the food is something particularly delicious, such as papaya leaf. If food is plentiful, they will pick a little here, and a little there. They will not graze in one spot. This is no doubt a mechanism that allows them to avoid parasite infestation.

  • Goats are not the cause of erosion and wastelands unless overgrazed and managed improperly. This is the case with any livestock; but goats, because they will eat shrubs and graze areas inhospitable to other livestock, and are the poor man's cow in many countries, are overgrazed more often in land that is already marginal and vulnerable to erosion.

[edit] Goat homosexuality

Is it true that a lot of goats are homosexual?

Male goats will become homosexual if they do not have an opportunity to encounter a female before their first year. The others will become bisexual if kept in a herd of exclusively male goats. When rutting, a herd of male goats may be seen mounting eachother in series, or mounting another who is preparing to butt another. It's quite an orgy.

I'm not sure, but I read in the news that 1 in ten rams(sheep) would rather mount other rams. None of my goats are homosexual PhotoNikonMan 19:58, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] kudzu

"or such plants as kudzu unless facing starvation." -- kudzu seems to say this plant is found in the US and Japan. In which case I don't think it's terribly relevant to mention it here, especially as it doesn't say why goats shouldn't eat it. -- Tarquin 14:50, 24 Aug 2003 (UTC)

It's relevant because kudzu is a highly invasive and noxious weed in the US, and goats are sometimes used to control it. The use of goats as an alternative to herbicides is increasing and (IMHO) noteworthy. I think the statement that goats will only eat kudzu when faced with starvation is incorrect, but I'm no expert. Toiyabe 22:57, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
It is also said that one of the reasons kudzu was introduced to the USA was to feed cattle. I think goats would like it too. Steve Dufour 22:25, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
It says even humans can eat it!!!Steve Dufour 22:27, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Livestock

Anyone interested in improving the content of the agricultural information on Wikipedia, here is your opportunity. Livestock has been nominated as a Collaboration of the Week. H2O 23:49, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Capitalization

Why is 'Goat' capitalized in the title? 140.247.60.149 18:38, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

Goat Milk Soap is excellent. In fact many skin care products are based on goat's milk.

[edit] Information overlap and organization

In the next few days I will probably do some work with the goat and domestic goat articles. There's some information in each that belongs in the other (such as talk about the Zodiac sign, etc.), and both of the articles need a going over for organization and grammatical business. I'm just giving everybody a heads up. --Krishva 06:35, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] pet goats?

There doesn't seem to be much information on pet goats here, despite the fact thats clearly an important part of this topic. Even the president of the united states likes pet goats, often prefering to read about them instead of paying attention to other events :) Damburger 11:55, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Horns

Why nothing on horns?--Light current 00:57, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Comment moved from article

At the end of the 'Reproduction' section User:Ugotmailkeenan wrote: 'Why in the world is the section on reproduction the longest? This shows what kind of people edit these pages.' Edward 09:21, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] picture of goat

The picture of the start of the article is really cool, is taht a painting or photo? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.174.172.103 (talk) 14:25, 20 January 2007 (UTC).

When you click on a picture you get to see it larger size and also see some information on it. This is a photo. I agree it is cool. It has a remarkable 3-D effect. Steve Dufour 22:28, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Do we really need the goat eating the placenta picture? That's pretty heinous
Please remember to sign your posts with four tildes (~). Heinous or not, the image is informative and encyclopedic. Also, please note that Wikipedia is not censored, for taste or otherwise. VanTucky 22:33, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Goats in folklore

If wise men wore beards, then would goats be prophets? Must all goats wear beards in order to become prophets? 72.194.116.63 21:48, 22 February 2007 (UTC) Vahe Demirjian 13.48 22 February 2007

My goats have beards, but I doubt that goats are prophets, and that goats with beards are smater than ones without seems illogical. Is it true that no-one knows the use of a goat's "toggles" or why they might be there. Also, nice to see you signed your name. PhotoNikonMan 16:31, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Military goats

Perhaps some mention should be made of army goats, used as regimental mascots

        Army goats?

[edit] Goat breeds

Under the goat breeds heading, they are said to fall under four catagories, and seven are listed. Also, the wild goats listed (in the domestic goat article!) aren't goats (only the kri-kri is of the same species), so their being listed as so may be somewhat misleading.

[edit] About.com

I think that it's actively absurd that someone keeps deleting a link to About.com with the charge that the link is spam. About.com's own articles are generally quite reliable. They are ad-supported, but so are the magazine and newspapers to which we link. —SlamDiego←T 12:17, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi. I'm not the guy doing the deleting, but just putting up a link to About.com is like putting up a link to any other search engine - it's not very specific. If there is a relevent, and documented, About.com article that you want to link to, I don't see any problem, but just linking to About so someone can search is a stretch.Bob98133 14:01, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
The link is very specific. It's to
McLeod, Lianne; “Goats as Pets”
(I didn't introduce the link.) —SlamDiego←T 14:18, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Ah, OK - sorry. I thought someone was just posting a link to about.com which wouldn't make sense. Otherwise I agree with you that a link to an article on about.com should be OK. Bob98133 14:39, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

No need to apologize. I take your original response as indicating that I needed to be clearer; I doubt that you were the only person who would have wondered if I were referring to a “Search BlahBlahBlah.com!” link. —SlamDiego←T 15:29, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chamois is not goat

I propose to delete chamois from the list of wild goats. Although chamois is considered as goat-like species and it is phylogenetically very related to goat, it is different genus: Chamois (Rupicapra rupicapra) versus domestic goat (Capra hircus).--Flukeboy 04:53, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] gallery

Wikipedia is not an image gallery. An article gallery is unnecessary when all the subjects of the gallery (males, females, adults, young, different breeds) are covered in the article. A gallery of different breeds or types is also superflous, those image should be in their respective articles. VanTucky (talk) 18:47, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cyan goats

Cyan? Seriously? If so, I want pictures. This I have to see. 86.137.77.251 03:26, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Goats in Mythology

Is the appearance of goats in Mythology significant enough to warrant a section on them? (pulled Thor's chariot, were the providers of milk to baby Zeus etc...) Just another guy trying to be a Chemical Engineer, Nanobiotechnologist, and Mathematician 00:13, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] ADGA recognition

I've removed the ADGA recognition "*" for dairy goat breeds. Every major country has a goat registry, we can't list them all (and I happen to be in ADGA, so any WP:COI would tend the other way for me). --Doug.(talk • contribs) 05:12, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I wholeheartedly agree with removing the mention. It's just one more piece of U.S.-centrism for people to criticize us on. VanTucky Talk 05:38, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
For the same reasons I decided to Be Bold and merged [[Nubian_goat]] into Anglo-Nubian and tried to eliminate a lot of ADGA stuff there. There's still the breed standard listed, but I may remove that as well once I can get a good breed description from Ensminger or the like. I'm sure all the other breeds, particularly the dairy breeds and dairy goat too, I'll take a look when I get a chance.--Doug.(talk • contribs) 15:39, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Placenta eating picture

The picture of the goat eating its placenta seems a little out of place. Many mammals (all ruminants as far as I know) do this and they don't always do it. Moreover, that's the only picture in a section on reproduction - there should be a picture of a goat giving birth or within a few minutes of kidding, or even a picture of goats mating, not this picture. Anyone got a better picture?--Doug.(talk • contribs) 01:30, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

What kind of pervert would want to watch goats mating!?!? Craobh sidhe (talk) 16:46, 5 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Goat terminology

[edit] Nanny vs Doe and Billy vs Buck

I just reverted edits where an editor had deleted the term "buck" and "doe" from the terminology here and on at least one breed page and demanded references.

Go to www.dictionary.com and search the term "Buck" then search the term "Billy". Hint: the second will not even list in a definition of "male goat" (though you will if you search the term "billy-goat".

Just to make sure I wasn't using an Americanism, I looked for a British site. Most just say "male" or "sire" or "female" or "dam", I did not find the terms "Billy" or "Nanny" on any British goat breed sites, though I must admit I did not check every one. This site uses the term "Billy" one time, the term "Buck" one time, the term "Nanny" zero times, the term "Doe" several times (I didn't count, at least 5 I think) [1]. In the States breeders never use the terms "billy" and "nanny".

Most texts I've read on goats, including academic and non-US ones, use the terms Doe and Buck exclusively (some include a a short explanation at the beginning that Billy-goat and Nanny-goat are somewhat coarse and arcane terms for goats). This website, not academic but highly respected for dairy information, provides basically the same info. [2]. Since the dictionary includes this definition, it is entirely unnecessary for it to be cited. I don't have any of my texts handy, but I'll take a look and include more if necessary.--Doug.(talk • contribs) 23:01, 16 November 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Does and Bucks??

I have certinly never heard the deer terminology of does and bucks applied to goats. I wonder is this perhaps a terminology used only in US English. I noticed something similar in that for some species of deer North Americans call bucks (even stags) and does bulls and cows. Is there a widespread difference in terminology between US and Commonwealth English in this regard? Do you have a US dictionary handy to confirm the usage?Billlion (talk) 23:06, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Here are some dictionary quotes for doe (n)
  1. a female fallow deer, reindeer, hare, or rabbit. The Oxford American Dictionary of Current English
  2. a female roe or fallow deer or reindeer. The Concise Oxford English Dictionary
  3. a female deer. • a female of certain other animal species, such as hare, rabbit, rat, ferret, or kangaroo.,The New Oxford American Dictionary
  4. a female deer, caribou, hare, or rabbit. The Canadian Oxford Dictionary
No mention of use for goats. Pretty much the same for Buck (n). However, eg

goat → noun 1. a herd of goats billy (goat), nanny (goat), goat noun" The Oxford Paperback Thesaurus. Ed. Maurice Waite. Oxford University Press, 2006. Oxford Reference Online. Oxford University Press. 16 November 2007 [3] Billlion (talk) 23:06, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

We were editing at the same time. Perhaps the point is that goat breeders use a rather specialised terminology from common usage. Certainly no dictionary I have access to supports this useage. Is it very recent, perhaps? Billlion (talk) 23:09, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
I found this discusion on Word-detective] "I don't know why anyone would shun the names "billy" and "nanny" in favor of the drab "buck" and "doe" (which can refer to the males and females of many species, including rabbits...", and "..I think it's probably a result of the dairy goat industry's quest for respectability. ..". this is in answer to a farmer who says "as I can only remember them being referred to as "billys" and "nannies" in Texas.". Personally tend to go with the theory that most of the goat "fan" sites in have gone with a dairy industry rebranding decision to change the terminology. And they are appear disproportionately on the internet. As far as I can tell the change has not yet appeared in dictionaries.Billlion (talk) 23:26, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Did you look at the reference above, which was not a dairy specific site (though it was a dairy specific article) and the dictionary.com search which does not produce "Billy = Male Goat" at all but does give a definition for "Buck = Male Goat".--Doug.(talk • contribs) 03:59, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
Also please see British Agriculture: Texts for the Zoo-Archaeologist. This academic work does not use the words "Billy" or "Nanny" but uses the words "Buck" and "Doe" exclusively. The work is not from the dairy industry (and it's not specific to goats nor dairy animals) nor is it from North America (the author is with a Portuguese institution).--Doug.(talk • contribs) 04:28, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
Almost all of the modern books I can find on goat keeping in print in the U.S. prefer the terms doe and buck. This includes a large proportion of books written by farmers, not agro industry. I can provide a complete list if necessary. While it might be more colloquially popular to say billy and nanny, Wikipedia relies ultimately on the facts as verified by reliable, published sources, and the majority of sources use doe and buck. VanTucky Talk 04:39, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
Sounds like someone should present this evidence to the Oxford English Dictionary so that they can update the next edition. How about changing the article to something like "in common usage the terms billy goat and nanny goat are most widely used and this usage is reflected in most dictionaries (references), however in agricultural spheres the terminology doe and buck is used almost exclusively (references)"? However perhaps it actually the fact that the common useage is also different in US English fro Commonwealth English?Billlion (talk) 09:26, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
I just looked up the reference British Agriculture: Texts for the Zoo-Archaeologist and it supports "Buck goat" as an archaic usage as the quote is from 1680. This agrees with the OED's etymology. Note also that many cases where American usage differs from British (or Commonwealth) usage and the American usage is corresponds to the 17th C English usage. Eg broil, gotten, herb (with the h aspirated) are all archaic in England. See American and British English differences.
By the way dictionary.com gives [4] billy goat

–noun 1. a male goat. Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006., similarly nanny goat goat. So again this supports what I said above. Doug did you have a different entry in mind? The buck entry only mentions goat in the etymology (again archaic). And doe says nothing on goats. Billlion (talk) 09:38, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Take a look at the very first entry for buck on Dictionary.com. Yes there is an entry for "billy goat" but there is no relevant entry for "billy.--Doug.(talk • contribs) 21:27, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] UK goat breeding sites

So a quick google turned up

  1. An FAQ on the English Goat Breeders association "Generally speaking a height of around 1400mm (4'6") is needed to prevent animals from jumping out, although it has been known for this height to be cleared by a billy when there are nannies the other side and vice versa!!". A search of this site [5] for nanny gives two hits, billy once, buck and doe zero.
  2. The British Goat Society [6], one mention of billy goats, [7], one of nanny, zero buck, zero doe. So the main goat societies only occasionally refer to billy goats and nanny goats but never to bucks and does.

However there are a few small sites dedicated to specific breeds.

  1. British Boer goat society[8], Buck 3, doe 3, billy zero, nanny zero. Just as many times it uses male instead of buck, and it is a small site.
  2. British Angora Goat Society [9], uses none of the words bill nanny or buck (or their plurals), but uses the word doe three times. [10] again a small site.

A slightly wider search of sites with uk top level domains (and note that many uk specific sites use .com or .org TLDs), for "nanny goat", [11] 618 hits, "billy goat" [12] 31,300 (but the title of the story [[Three Billy Goats Gruff] obviously has some effect here, so of these 27,900 do not contain gruff. It is harder to do searches for uk sites in which buck and doe refer to goats, rather than deer, rabbits etc. Even some pages with goat and doe might easily refer to several different animals. I searched for "buck goat" [13] 114 and "doe goat" [14] 114, obviously and underestimate of the number of times doe and buck refer to goats on uk pages, but proving at least that the terms are used.

I think the overall conclusion that this support is that the common British English terms most widely used are nanny goat and billy goat, and that among professional agricultural and amateur goat enthusiasts, both terminologies are in use but without clear evidence of one being dominant.

The English usage (at least British English) for names especially sex specific names of farm animals is quite complex. For example among all the names for pigs, male female and collectively, pretty much all non-specialists in the UK presented with a picture of a pig and asked what it was would say "pig", but in historical terms the use of this word is quite recent, swine, hog, boar and sow all being much older words, and much more likely to be used by farmers (and the rural population with a close connection to farming). To the urban population now cows is practically synonym for cattle. I am sure that everyone in the UK who has no specific contact with goat enthusiasts or professionals uses the words nanny goat and billy goat. Moreover if they look in any British English dictionary I can find (specifically including the authoritative OED) this will confirm that they are correct in this usage). I'd be interested in the similar question in the US. Would Webster's be your most authoritative dictionary? Does it support the buck/doe useage?Billlion (talk) 15:06, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] OED

I was able to get on line to a more detailed edition of the OED. It says "Buck (n) 1 The male of several animals. The he-goat. Obs. exc. U.S. Phrase, to blow the buck's horn: to have his labour for his pains" (this is from the OED 1989), in other word obsolete except in the US. So even if it has regained favour professionally in the UK it must now be regarded as an "Americanism" at least in so far as it has been "reimported" perhaps along with a new-found enthusiasm for goat breeding and farming? As for doe the same edition says "The female of the fallow deer; applied also to the female of allied animals, as the reindeer." no specific mention of goats (but it does mention rabbits). However it is interesting that the same edition lists billy-goat as a "Familiar term for: A male goat.", where as nanny-goat is simply "A female goat" with the first written mention found in 1758 (note that OED first recorded usage is typically long after the word is in current usage, it is just the written evidence the OED have found that has a clearly verified meaning and date). Interestingly the OED also lists he-goat under he- "Male. (Now confined to the lower animals, as he-goat; in 16-18th c. with nouns denoting persons; this is now contemptuous.)", so maybe for the male he-goat was actually more common or "official".

[edit] Recap

I won't call this a summary or conclusion, because I don't want to be accused of trying to cut off discussion, but I never suggested that "Billy" and "Nanny" were inappropriate terms in this article. They are there. All I did was restore "Buck" and "Doe". We can work on exactly how to word the explanation. As for Saanen_goat: That's a specialized dairy breed, I'm not so sure that explaining all the possible terms relevant to goats is necessary. But a reference out to the main goat article might be worthwhile. Also, some of the livestock species now have a "terminology" or "etymology" section (I prefer the former), maybe we should consider that here - then breed articles could reference that specific section. If necessary, we could include the fact that in specialized circumstance (esp. among breeders) "sire" and "dam" are commonly used and that "he-goat" and "she-goat" are often used in Britain --Doug.(talk • contribs) 21:41, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

  • Oh, I see we have an etymology section here too and it does cover that ground, I traverse all the Livestock articles and I forget which ones do and which don't sometimes. Speaking of which, here's my plug to invite you all to Wikipedia:WikiProject Agriculture if you aren't already signed up! ;)--Doug.(talk • contribs) 21:44, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
I have to admit that following my shock and surprise at the buck/doe terminology in Saanen_goat, which led me to do all the looking up in dictionaries, that the current Etymology section is not too bad. Probably it should be a bit more careful about British (or Commonwealth) v. American useage, and careful that the OED dates are typically a long time after terms were in common spoken use. Also it should site sources, maybe if someone feels like it some of my dictionary quotes above might do as references.Billlion (talk) 16:02, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merger proposal

At present, Dairy goat is useless stub. Quite a bit of it's content is repeated either from this article or from breed articles. What is not comprises content that in my view violates WP:NOT#HOWTO. Any of the specialized dairy goat content can be merged into a subsection of this article, which needs beefing up anyway. VanTucky Talk 00:47, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Good point, I'd tend to agree with you, and I'm a dairy goat breeder so if anything I would like to see the other article be of some purpose, but it's not.--Doug.(talk • contribs) 04:50, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
Support Merge Both Articles have a large overlap so it seems to make sense to merge. Sawblade05 (talk to me | my wiki life) 22:51, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
Merge as per above. Merenta (talk) 22:47, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Merge. “Dairy goat” presently has little unique content. If, sometime downstream, the “Dairy goats” section of “Goat” grows over-large, then “Dairy goat” could be spun-off. —SlamDiego←T 01:23, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Considering that there seems to be a consensus to merge, I'm doing so now. VanTucky 03:46, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Goat milk for infants

'For these reasons, goat milk may be recommended for infants and people who have difficulty digesting cow's milk' there have been cases of infants suffering from malnutrition when given goats milk for extended periods of time. Infants that do not have access to mother's milk should be given formula. I don't have any source for this but the article doesn't either. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Craobh sidhe (talk • contribs) 16:42, 5 February 2008 (UTC) 'Yes, well It can be argued that people are not supposed to drink the milk of anything but their mothers and that no other species in the world does so (Or raises and slaughters animals for food) Go Vegan!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.63.249.80 (talk) 13:33, 9 February 2008 (UTC) eh.. I'm not saying that. I have no problem with people drinking milk (though not very healthy). I'm saying that there is NO substitute for mothers' milk unless specialy formulated. I am not saying milk is bad for you out of any pre-concieved bias or conviction; there have been numerous studies of milk nutrition.

[edit] In Religion

Why is there no mention of its prevelance in satanism and occult imagery?♠♦Д narchistPig♥♣ (talk) 02:59, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

So long as an editor has “reliable sources” and can establish “notability”, he or she should feel free to add such content (in relative proportion to its significance). My best guess is that no one writing the article has felt sufficiently expert and interested. —SlamDiego←T 10:51, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
well since i have a little experience in both religions i suppose i could give it a shot...♠♦Д narchistPig♥♣ (talk) 21:18, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Persona experience isn't necessary or sufficient. You should read the Wikipedia guidelines on “reliable sources”, and provide citations from such. —SlamDiego←T 22:59, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
What is this person taking about when it comes to imagery? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.190.81.171 (talk • contribs) 20:20, 14 March 2008

[edit] Usage

In referring to the removal of fibre from the coat of domestic animals, isn't the usual past tense shorn? Surely it is a strong verb in this meaning; sheared refers to rivets or something breaking, no? Or is this an American (or other) use i am unaware of? I'm not changing the verb right now, because i'm always open to correction, but i may at some point in the future if i'm not corrected. Cheers, Lindsay 18:42, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I think you are right. I'll change it! --Jaysweet (talk) 18:44, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Sweet; a quick answer. Yeah, i know about being bold, but i try not antagonise if i could well be ignorant of others' usage. Cheers, Lindsay 18:47, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I think you're right that shorn is correct. That's what got done at Domestic sheep. VanTucky 18:50, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Article Locked -- Please add this correction to etymology section

On at Wikipedia would an article on goats need to be locked...  : |


In the Etymology section, please change this current text:


The Modern English word "goat" comes from the Old English gat which meant "she-goat", and this in turn derived from Proto-Germanic *gaitaz (compare Old Norse and Dutch geit'(meaning' "goat"), German Geiß' ("she-goat") and Gothic gaits, ("goat")) ultimately from Proto-Indo-European *ghaidos meaning "young goat" but also "play" (compare Latin haedus meaning "kid").


To this (adds long-A for Old English, fixes nested parentheses, removes erroneous apostrophes, clarifies Latin meaning which could be confused with children given preceding reference to "play", etc.):


The Modern English word "goat" comes from the Old English gāt which meant "she-goat", and this in turn derived from Proto-Germanic *gaitaz (compare Old Norse and Dutch geit ["goat"], German Geiß ["she-goat"], and Gothic gaits ["goat"]), ultimately from Proto-Indo-European *ghaidos meaning "young goat" but also "play" (compare Latin haedus ["young goat"]).


Note to click the "edit" link for this comment, in order to get the source-code text to copy and past in with links, etc.

[edit] Article Locked -- please make a few miscellaneous corrections

HISTORY SECTION

"cultures and tribes" -- the word "culture" applies to any human group including those with tribal structures, change to just "cultures".


ANATOMY SECTION

"2 horns" to "two horns"


REPRODUCTION SECTION

remove extra line space between paragraphs


DIET

Rework talky and awkward first few sentences. Use "has reputation for" not "is reputed" and clarify under what conditions (of availability) it eats what.


MILK BUTTER AND CHEESE SECTION

Clarify "allergic" to cow's milk (vs casein, lactose intolerance, etc -- what component of cow's milk?). Emphasis that goat's milk has the same type and amount of lactose as cow's milk -- very common currently for goat's milk advocates to claim falsely that it can be (better) tolerated by lactose intolerant individuals vs. cow's milk. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.36.144.244 (talk) 09:16, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Feral goats in Australia

User:Ahtsisab has just added a long section on feral goats in Australia. It is excellent material: well-researched, well-referenced and full of useful encyclopaedic information. However, it seems to me that it makes the goat article very unbalanced, and I think it would be better in a separate article.

It is well meaty enough to make a reasonable article on its own. However, feral goats also occur in many other places in the world, often with similar issues, and so I think it would be best in an article about feral goats more generally (which surprisingly does not exist yet, apart from a short section in Wild goat). I therefore suggest that this material is moved to a new Feral goat article, leaving a "main article" tag and summary here. The summary for this important subject ought to go earlier in the article – I suggest inserting it before "Goat breeds". --Richard New Forest (talk) 16:25, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

No comments for a couple of weeks, so I have broken out this section into a new Feral goat article, with a "main article" tag. --Richard New Forest (talk) 21:39, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Chromosome number

why nothing on the number of chromosome of goats ( 60), which is the difference with the sheep ( 54,56,58 )? It exist hybrid with 57 and also chimere --bc789 (talk) 06:40, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Goat Life Expectancy

I just looked through the entire goat article and all the milking breed sub-articles and could not find a single mention of the natural life expectancy of any of them. Do we really not know how old these goat breeds live to be if not culled? I've read in other places wildly different numbers (between 10 years and 30!). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thunksalot (talk • contribs)

As with dogs, the life-span of goats will differ across breeds. A typical domestic goat would probably live for about 25 years if as much care were given to it as is given to a well-treated dog. But, certainly, the article would be better if life-expectancies were reported, drawing upon “reliable sources”. —12.72.72.194 (talk) 06:49, 8 June 2008 (UTC)