Talk:Glossary of ballet
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[edit] Spelling and style
Please try to spell words correctly. Firefox has a feature which allows to check spelling while editing a page (English language pack). I am sure something similar exists for IE as well. For the style, please remember Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. Therefore the use of a more general and formal tone is advised (ie avoid writing "my brother says..." or "I use gel pads..."). Thanks! Gioland71 (talk) 00:47, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Glossary
Is there a difference between a glossary of terms and an encyclopedia entry? How could this be turned into Wikipedia material? Wetman 09:54, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)
- It is quite often useful to have all words from a narrow domain in one place. Glossary is microdictionary. Hence think of the difference between wikipedia and wiktionary. If a term deserves much to write about, a separate article is welcome, otherwise it is not wise :-) See, a similar Glossary of ballroom dance terms. Mikkalai 11:14, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
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- perhaps a notational form could be used to illustrate the various terms, labanotation or Benesh Movement Notation ? Ohka- 21:03, 30 May 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Third position
I believe the third position of the feet shown here is not correct.Gioland71
[edit] Dance
I love dance!!! <3AmAnDa
[edit] Possible vandalism - First position
Couuld someone please check whether the change by user 168.212.65.126 (known frequent vandal) is valid? here
Pavel Vozenilek 21:47, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Valid, althouigh not very literate. It was loooong time ago and probably different user. Mikkalai 22:37, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Turn-out
I've seen 'turn-out' mentioned a lot, but there's no entry for it here, at least not in terms of dance. Is it synonymous with technique? Can someone who knows please explain with a new entry.
- Please. I was about to ask the same question. --Hhielscher 01:21, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
Turnout is rotation of the legs outwards from the hips. So no turnout would be both feet having the toes of a foot on the ground pointing straight forwards, 180 degrees is the right foot pointing straight to the right of the body and the left toes going left. The legs are maintained in this rotated position during all the movements in classical ballet. The rotation should all come from the hip but the feet can be forced into a more turned-out (closer to sideways) position by rotating the knees and ankles. However, this is very poor technique, known as "forcing turnout" and it causes injury to the dancer. Proper alignment from the hips is most easily identified by bending the knees. If they are directly over the toes, the turnout is all from the hips. If they are in front of the toes this means the dancer is forcing their turnout, and probably also pronating their ankles (rolling to place weight on the inside of the arch). I don't have time to write up a quality section on it but hopefully I can clear up the questions on the talk page. Source is my own experience taught by faculty of SAB and members of NYCB but probably a valid online source can also be found. puppies_fly 16:52, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
Wow, this dancer pictured here with her pointe shoes on to display the basic foot positions is rolling in on her feet terribly! I doubt this person is a dancer. It hurts me just to look at it. Can someone find some better pictures with proper demonstration of the basic foot positions. 121.1.187.9 03:42, 28 March 2007 (UTC)Carlina
I agree with Carlina. I posted the same thing later on this page. Personally, I don't think this person is a dancer, either. If they are, I really hope they don't seriously injure themselves. Doing things like that on flat is one thing. But en pointe can be a major recipe for ankle-snapping disaster.
[edit] Where's the J?
Where's the J section? what about jeté?--Sonjaaa 22:09, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
[edit] enchainement vs variation
anyone know the difference
Enchainement: a combination of steps which fit into a phrase of music. Variation: a ballet solo. Gioland71 01:18, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Ballet arm positions are wrongly named
I think that the arm positions described here are not the ones used at the Bolshoi (which follows the Vaganova method). Anybody else on this? If I do not get any comments I will proceed and correct it. They seem to be the arm positions in the Cecchetti syllabus, or maybe French school. Gioland71 01:18, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Before you edit my changes
Please consider that editing this entries costed me some time. I have some experience in ballet (mostly Vaganova method), but I decided to validate my ideas before typing and so I went through an extensive research on the following books: 'Basic principles of classical ballet' (A. Vaganova), 'Theory and practice of classical theathrical dancing - methode Cecchetti' (C. Beaumont), 'Technical manual and dictionary of classical ballet' (G. Grant), 'Danza e metodo' (M. Fusco). If you wish to make any changes, please ensure that what you learned in your classes is actually part of a published syllabus (RAD would be most welcome). Thanks. PS: none of the text I wrote is taken from these books; I used them as a reference for the correct naming of the positions described in the text. PPS: I left out a lot about the arm positions... There is the whole part on the arms in arabesque still missing...
[edit] On Terminology
I found the existing article very helpful when checking the spelling of ballet terms I never learned to write. This would be more helpful if it included as many terms as possible. I have only studied in a school claiming to teach "American" style - supposedly a mix of all styles - but the terms I have been looking for the spelling of:
saut de chat {pronounced "sō-də-shǎ" (a leap similar to grand jeté but beginning with a developpé)}
tembé {pronounced "tǒm-bě" meaning "to fall" (often happens before a pas de bourrèe)}
enveloppé {pronounced "on-VEL-o-pĕ"(a developpé in reverse)}
en closhe {pronounced "on-clōsh" or "on-clǒsh" (a degagé that brushes back and forth through first position)}
Being from an "American" school, will the terms I have learned for steps benefit this article?
Liquid06 03:17, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Correct spelling is:
Tombé (literally: fallen); En cloche (literally: as a clock).
[edit] 2007-02-1 Automated pywikipediabot message
--CopyToWiktionaryBot 14:21, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
How do we keep the traswikied page updated? It is silly to edit the same page twice... Is there anything like automatic updates?
[edit] Foot Positions
someone put the following in the part about the five possitions:
All of these photos of the positions of the feet with pointe shoes are extreme examples of the student rolling in and not "holding her arches up" and standing with the proper weight distribution on her feet. (Let's find photos with better technique)
Now while this in un encyclopedic in its phrasing (especialy the last part) I felt maybe there could be a point of mentoning it in dicussion 71.131.42.85 09:06, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
Can someone please change the photos for the foot positioning to properly done positions? The internet is a big place and it's easy to find correctly positioned feet and ankles for these six positions. I can even take photos of my own feet, if necessary. But the photos on here are horribly done and I don't understand why they're here without photos showing how they are supposed to be. There is no correct reference, only poorly done ones. So anyone who doesn't know about ballet feet positions is going to have no idea what is going on.
[edit] Foot Positions - or arms?
Why are the positions of the arms mentioned in the entry of the positions of the feet? I find this quite confusing - for an non-expert, it might sound like they are always used together! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gioland71 (talk • contribs) 02:36, 1 May 2007 (UTC).
[edit] Fouetté
Note: in the example, while the dancer turns , ideally the leg should be at 90 degrees from the waist, no lower or higher
Vaganova describes the turn at 45 degrees (fouetté en tournant at 45 degrees). Gail Grant describes it at 90 degrees (fouetté rond de jambe en tournant). I cannot really say if the 45 degree one is still performed at all - and the image is too quick for me to say if there is anything wrong with it, but stating that a 45 degrees turn is never acceptable might be misleading. Gioland71 02:55, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
[edit] grande (pas de chat)
ok first: grande has an 'e'at the end so please if you spot a grande without the 'e' put it in there. and second, isnt a grande pas de chat kind of like a....something else which i cant spell for crap. it sounds like (sew te je) i'm a dancing vampirate!! (talk) 19:02, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
-
- Maybe check your French grammar book before making changes, OK? Grand is correct for all masculine nouns - battement, jeté, pas and so on. And I believe by (sew te je) you mean a "sauté", which is a name for any generic jump (which a grand pas de chat is, BTW). Gioland71 (talk) 22:41, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Painting link
My painting link was not vandalism. Please explain why it was removed. smith2267@yahoo.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.210.65.61 (talk) 21:42, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
Hi, probably you didn't add the link to the image in the proper way. Also, please sign your posts as a courtesy.
Gioland71 (talk) 02:14, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] italics
It is customary to italicize words from a foreign language which have not become naturalized, but in the case of ballet almost all of the French words have become native to English; this is to say, there is no other word for them in English. Might we dispense with italics? Robert Greer (talk) 14:47, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Many French words have a correspondent in English - such as à la seconde (to the second position), saut (jump), écarté (open) and so on... In theory one should not use the French word when there is an English one available to say the same thing but in fairness ballet terminology is (mostly) in French. Also, it would be fairly difficult to identify which ones are 'French' French words and which ones have been adsorbed into English; is 'attitude' (English) the same as attitude (French)? I do not think so.
Gioland71 (talk) 15:51, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] IPA
Why not giving the IPA version of the names instead of the english mock-up? --Cantalamessa (talk) 22:18, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
- Because it is too much effort? I do not personally know anything about IPA. Gioland71 (talk) 01:30, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
- The pronunciation section (see below) probably answers your question - is it the French pronunciation we should report (IPA) or the anglicized version? My teacher in Montreal was fluent in French although with a wonderful Russian accent, but here in Toronto my teacher can't pronounce correct French at all (he's from the US), and really sounds like those mock-ups people are giving here... Just terrible for people who can speak French, but this is the English wiki, so... Any other comments on this topic? Gioland71 (talk) 13:27, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Independent articles
I started moving entries that are too bulky into their separate articles. I think this will improve the readability of the glossary, but still all the relevant info will be available. Any suggestions? Gioland71 (talk) 01:29, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Pronunciation
I don't travel in Ballet circles, but any that does- Is the pronunciation guide for Retiré (reh teh ray), correct?
I ask because if I recall my french correctly, the ir would rhyme with pier. Certainly- practice rules, so if it has become bastardized into (reh teh ray) in the english speaking ballet world, far be it for me to intrude. Mak (talk) 17:01, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
- My "petit robert" says it should be pronounced ʀ(ə)Tiʀe Gioland71 (talk) 13:40, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
- Right. That's how I'd pronounce it- I'm not sure the guidance the article gives is incorrect because I asked my daughter's teacher who is an accomplished ballerina and she said she had always pronounced it the way the article describes. She was aware of the other pronunciation but she recalled it used by people from Europe- everywhere from the US she hears it the way she pronounces it. Given that, I'm not doing anything to the article, since I am deferential to usage. It's a shame, because the french sounds so much better, but there you are. As for this proposal concerning IPA- it forces more fidelity, but realistically, it is not even that great for European languages. Even IPA doesn't give a unique symbol for the french gargled r. There's either the spanish trilled r, or the american r (upside down in IPA), and neither is anything close to the french r. Which is odd, because as I understand a Frenchman was one of the authors of IPA. I bow out of this matter. Regards- Mak (talk) 01:01, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
