Talk:Gleichschaltung

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[edit] legal or not?

this article does not give enough consideration to the discussion whether the gleichschaltung was legal in the end or not. I have just written my exams about this topic. First of all the Ermächtigungsgesetzt was in breach to the constitution of the weimar republic as it did not accord to it, it only fullfilled the constitution in a "rechtspositivistische" way (sry, dunno word in eng). The Gesetz gegen die Neubildung von Parteien and The Gesetz über den Neuaufbau des Reiches were definately not legal becos a) they abrogated the reichstag and the reichsrat, which abrogated the constitution and b) it was even in Breach to the Ermächtigungsgesetz itself. i just came across this article, do not just want to complain, but would be glad if someone could somehow edit the article, as it uses the expression 'legal' to self-conceptive. keep up the good work

[edit] Older talk

I have created three legislation pages for Reichstag Fire Decree, Enabling Act, and Law Regarding Measures of State Self-Defense, which in part reproduce the legislation. I have done the translation to English myself; if you find any bad wording there, please do correct, my Legal English is imperfect. -- djmutex 2003-04-30

"Enabling act" is a common legal phrase. Your current article will have to be renamed and "Enabling Act" turned into a disambiguation page...something like "Enabling Act (Reichstag)". —B 19:19, Oct 23, 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Wrong translation

schaltung means something like step. The word has three uses in German for physical, rather than political, meanings.
I.) A lock-step march, as some armies train their troops to perform.

Nonsense - "schalten" = "to switch" or "to trigger". The author seems to confuse Gleichschaltung with Gleichschritt ("Schritt" = "step", "Gleichschritt" = "lock step"). The other two given meanings could be affected as well.

I think it is not really a good idea to try to translate the word literally. I think "to make equal" "or to make similar" would be a good translation. The meaning in German today (and it's purpose in the past) is/was rather "to force to be similar", "to wipe out differences" or "to remove anything and anybody that/who doesn't fit your way of thinking". ThomasKathmann 5 July 2005 10:21 (UTC)

Seconded. But with the following caveat: your emphasis on negative connotations "removal", "force", "wipe out" is not necessary. "Integration" or "coordination" would also be appropriate positive connotations. --1010011010 05:59, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Thirded. Let's get rid of the "literal translation"; it's worse than useless. I suggest starting off with: "Gleichschaltung, a German nonce word meaning something like "synchronization", is a Nazi term ..." --Wegesrand 08:15, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] use of the word in american politics

I removed this part entirely:

"Revival of the Word in American Politics

In the last fifth of the twentieth century, both the left and the right in the U.S.A. use this word, although it is quite uncommon, to describe each others' tactics in the so-called "culture wars". The classic example of its use is that all members of the American Legal Association succumbed to a proclamation that the ALA as a whole believed in the laws concerning abortion in the U.S. What could conservatives do to say that they had opinions of their own, when confronted with this diktat?

Similarly, the left uses it to decry the attempts of "stealth candidates" on the right to undo certain "progressive" issues which the left had gotten made law, habit, or accepted practice by means that the right considers unfair. But both the left and the right use any of various means other than outright plebiscite or grassroots program to make or attempt to unmake any such laws.

The word is not used for attempts of the right to silence the press, spy on the public, or overthrow regulatory agencies. Those actions are too blatant to require the revival of an obscure term that most Americans have never seen and which is difficult for them to pronounce."


Especially the last paragraph is wrong, biased and completely uncalled for. I'm not sure about the other parts but I don't know enough about the use of the word in american politics to separate fact and opinion.saturnight 16:50, Dec 2, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Utmost Importance

Thankyou DJmutex- your work is of utmost importance. I there gain the required clinchers on two fronts. One , the WP constant refrain that the Communists were banned at the Acts deed (and in the 5 march elections ) and the other that indeed the reichskonkordat was with the Nazis on behalf of the german State . The first is part of the overall WP error I recognise and deeply suspect. The second relates to revision which I have had to discuss on that specific point .

And no to all re+ _B opinion :the Act must stay there on its own page forever . Thanks Famekeeper 07:19, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

Immediately I come back Dj- the Act in 2 states no interfernce with the Reichstag. Surely therefore it was illegal to arrest the Communist deputies , and illegal to detain them on 23 . That was an interference with the Reichstag . I really in good faith see a problem here and I hope it is only the problem of ignorance or blindness, I refer to the repetition of banning the Communists made everywhere -at least that I can say I have seen on WP . This is a very mucky stable , and we need a big shovel for unblocking this particular drain of history . Thanks again, I leave you to correct this article in accordance with Act part2. ( Perhaps you would also help me squash , but where was it? Yes... suggestion that there was a further decree , date unspecified, was it German History .... yes -was there a further decree before the 23 , that banned Communist Deputies and thereby interfered with the Reichstag ? I see no such decree and assume the rest of the banning was the general political party ban of shortly after the seizure . Even now the long arm of Hitler is adjusting the view-it is incredible but true that either this is blindness or HE succeeds still in perverting our minds . No?

Please help me with the Reichskonkordat question I have . Would you say given Act4 :that the Concordat was with the Government or with the State , or both ? Or just the state ? I have had to argue this , bitterly . I think Act4 is pretty clear in assuming the business of contracts unto solely the Government for the State passing no people's legislature. What do you think ?Famekeeper 07:39, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

Can someone find and translate the under-lying 'Dormancy' in the classification of the jan/feb arrested Deputies ? Does it over-ride part 2 of the EAct ? Famekeeper 10:08, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] A complaint

I have to question the impartiality of Brodo for linking to the Patriot Act article in the Reichstag Fire Decree article. By linking the two, he is making a politcal statement, comparing the US law to Nazi activities. He is not providing any truly historically related information.

I did not remove the link, but I believe it should be removed. 3 August 2005

I do not believe a political interpretation is necessary or that the link is POV. The two came about under similar political pressures to ensure public safety after recent violent attacks. The two also acted to remove various legal safeguards. The interpretation is clearly up to the reader, the article does not make a case one way or the other; see-also links simply show similar articles.
Another, more compelling, argument to keep it is that the USA PATRIOT Act is extremely controversial, drawing direct comparisons by some sides to the decree. The Act's article links to the Fire Decree article at USA PATRIOT Act#Analysis of comparisons to historical laws. A reciprocal link, so that people can easily notice where else the Decree is relevant, seems very acceptable. I believe a compromise, if necessary, would be to mention why it's listed in the see-also section. — 131.230.133.185 15:56, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
The problem is that though the Patriot Act restricts certain liberties it does not suspend the complete bill of rights. If it did, the parallel would be all right (though not the fact). Whatever one's view on the Patriot Act might be, it should be clear that it is not the Reichstag Fire Decree, the Magna Charta of the Third Reich. Hence it cannot be just included without a disclaimer pointing out the difference I just described. However, the link given above (Analysis of comparisons ...) seems allright to me. Str1977 16:35, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
The Reichstag decree was not the Magna Carta of the Third Reich. Emergency powers were an integral part of the Weimar constitution, which was never formally suspended. Certainly aberrant, the Third Reich was nevertheless a 13-year official state of emergency. In this respect, there is great parallelism with the Patriot Act--even better, the authorization to use force--and the Bush administration's claim that the constitution's "commander in chief" clause allows the exectutive to freely act with the force of law in the suspension of the actual law as promulgated by Congress, e.g. warrentless wiretapping, detainment of citizens as "enemy combatants". I would say the comparison is historically apt. --1010011010 05:50, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
I quite agree with your analysis and arguments - Carl Schmitt certainly is a key link between our current leaders and Nazi jurisprudence. Including a Patriot Act link might just be too POV, though. I dunno. Deleuze 06:17, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

My questioning Brodo's impartiality has mostly to do with the contents of his personal page, which clearly shows his partisan views. His personal page leads me to believe he meant it as POV. I don't have any problem with the link, as long as it has the above listed disclaimer.

21:04, 3 August 2005 User:155.104.239.16

[edit] Locking Clutch

A locking clutch; manual clutches on cars usually do not press the plates one against each other, so they lose about three percent of power; some race cars use locking clutches in which the driven plate travels at the same speed as that connected to the engine; hence it wears out faster.

..... comment starts

Can anyone understand the paragraph above? Manual clutches DO function by pressing plates together, and when not opened, the driven plate of a manual clutch travels at the same speed as the driving one, assuming a reasonably low level of power throughput. A locking clutch may be used to avoid clutch slipping when very high levels of power are passed through, but if it is locked there will be NO increase in wear. May I suggest:

A locking clutch; if a traditional manual clutch which works by pressing plates together is used to transmit large amounts of power it will tend to slip. This loses power and causes the clutch plates to wear out. For high power applications such as racing cars the clutch may be designed to lock the plates together when not being operated - this ensures 100% power transmission even at high torque.

..... comment ends

User:193.133.92.239 07:01, 20 February 2006 - moved here by User:144.132.88.170 07:37, 20 February 2006

Let's not get sidetracked into a discussion of automechanics. The operative metaphor here is one of interdigitation or the interlocking of gears. --1010011010 05:40, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Maidens"

Is the translation of "Mädel" as "maiden" standard in any way? If not, I'd suggest changing it, since "Mädel" is really just a colloquial form of "Mädchen" ("girl") as far as I can tell. -- Schnee (cheeks clone) 15:21, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

While "maiden" seems a bit archaic in English, it is preferable to "girl" because it is a cognate. In addition, "Mädel" is more likely to be used for adolescent or adult females than "Mädchen". --1010011010 05:35, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] SA

The SA is mentioned half dozen times, but never defined. --Djfeldman 13:56, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Huge police force?

In the introduction it says that the Nazi state controlled the population through a huge police force (ie. the Gestapo). However, according to The Anatomy of Fascism by Robert O. Paxton (page 136) the German people were kept under control by a relativly small force of secret police men, relying on citizens denouncing each other instead. So the question is if that is a true statement.--Sus scrofa 15:01, 5 February 2007 (UTC)