Talk:Giuoco Piano

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There is an "extra" black knight on square f6 in the picture. Somebody should fix that. - Bryan is Bantman 23:09, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)

Nevermind, figured it out and fixed it myself. :) - Bryan is Bantman 23:12, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Guioco Piano (redirect)

While correcting a misspelling elsewhere I noticed that Guioco Piano redirects to this page, making it more likely that that misspelling will be used elswhere. I'm not sure what the best way to handle common misspellings is, but an automatic redirect doesn't seem optimal. If the mistake is common enough to need treatment, it should probably get a little page explaining that it is a misspelling, with the link given there, no? (Total neophyte here.) post added 09:31, 12 May 2005 from 82.228.195.112 (Talk)

I don't know how common that misspelling is, but it's clear that I'm doing it all the time. Thanks for pointing this out. I'm fixing the mistakes I made in Bishop's Opening, Hungarian Defense, and Ponziani Opening. I made the mistake multiple times in the Bishop's Opening article alone. Quale 15:23, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
This is an old discussion, but I'm not sure which is corect spelling now. The books I've looked at all say "Giuoco Piano", not "Guioco..."; is this an another example of anglo-saxons messing up other peoples languages? And how do you say it? (I'd say "Jzeeohkoh", but thats just me). Moonraker12 11:31, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Variations

I've re-arranged the text here to make it easier to follow. There's probably a better way to do it, but hopefully this'll do for now. I've not checked the play; it isn't a line in the books I've seen (though they're pretty old books). 194.176.105.40 12:48, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Why doesn't anyone ever mention the line e4 e5 Nf3 Nc6 Bc4 Bc5 c3 Qf6? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.226.77.23 (talk) 01:56, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Because it's an obscure variation. We are not into that level or detail here. 4...Qf6 is played less then 1% of the time in that position. And while Yusapov(?) may of played that move once I can't see any reason to cover 4...Qf6, when 4....Nf6,4...Qe7,4...d6 and 4...Bb6 and all far more common. ChessCreator (talk) 02:16, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Well then why don't we mention why it's played so infrequently? It's an obvious move without an obvious drawback. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.226.77.23 (talk) 00:33, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Are you talking about the same position? It blocks in the Knight, gives up the possibility of d5, puts the queen on a square where it will likely be attacked by Bg5. According to chessgames.com it's the worse scoring move that's been played more then once in that position. ChessCreator (talk) 00:51, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but it also prevents d4. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.226.77.23 (talk) 01:14, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Italian Game

The page "Italian Game" redirects here; it looks like it was merged in May this year. The books I’ve read make a distinction between the Italian Game and the Giuoco Piano; the Italian Game is all play after 3.Bc4, so includes Two knights Defence (3…Nf6) and the Hungarian Defence (3…Be7) while the Giuoco Piano is just the play after 3…Bc5. This also agrees with the wikibook pages on chess openings. In any event the Giuoco Piano page only discusses play after 3…Bc5, so I was intending to open up the Italian Game page again.Does anyone have any strong objection to this? Moonraker12 12:22, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

See Talk:Italian Game and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Chess/Archive 5#A couple of things. 64.231.242.114 19:21, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

OK I’ve read the discussion on the link, but I can’t say I’m any closer to an answer to my question.

I accept that the terms Italian Game and Giuoco Piano are often used as synonyms (though different books have it different ways round; is it Italian Game (Giuoco Piano) or G.P (Italian)?) But there’s no consensus, that I can see. Other books do make the distinction, with Italian covering everything after 3.Bc4, and G.P just the play after 3…Bc5 (I’m referring, from memory, to The Italian Game by Harding & Botterill, and Batsford Chess Openings).

And, (second point) one of those sources is WP itself, on the chess pages (Chess openings, Open games) and in Wikibooks (I’ve been doing a bit of work there, but the pages were there already)

The problem (third point) is that if G.P is to be the only page for this, then it is deficient/incomplete as it only contains play after 3…Bc5, and there are no easy links to the Hungarian Defence or the 2 Knights.

The most elegant solution, to my mind, is to have a page like Open games for the Italian Game /3.Bc4, with a diagram, thumbnail sketch and link for each of the main branches. The alternative seems to be to change everything else to fit.

So again, does anyone have any strong objections to me doing that? Moonraker12 13:01, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't have any objections. Several months ago I tried to clarify whether the Italian Game is the GP, or everything after 3. Bc4, and I was not able to get a definitive answer. I hope you can clear it up. Bubba73 (talk), 17:00, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
No objections at all here - go for it, and I'll help where I can. ELIMINATORJR 17:08, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
The Guioco Piano by Gufeld and Stesko says that the GP "is a branch of the Italian Game". In contrast, Italian Game and Evans Gambit by Pinski only gives GP, Evans Gambit, and a short chapter on the "Hungarian and other sidelines". Bubba73 (talk), 17:55, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Looking back at the old discussion linked above, five of the six references I checked equated Italian with GP, only one included other third moves by Black. Bubba73 (talk), 18:05, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
I also now have another reference - Golombek's Encyclopedia of Chess. It equates the GP and Italian, so my books are six to one in favor of GP (including Evans gambit) = Italian. Bubba73 (talk), 21:17, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, I'll have a go at it over the next few days. Do you know, is there any way of looking at the old page? I don't know if it still exists somewhere. Moonraker12 07:32, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
Try this: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Italian_Game&action=history. If you simply try to go to Italian Game, you'll be redirected to the G.P. page. You can get to the redirect page itself by clicking on the Italian Game link at the top of the page in the message that tells you you've been redirected. Quale 19:46, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
Thanks; it looks like this isn't the first time this line's been followed. Moonraker12 12:26, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
OK, done; I've left some further comments on the name thing there. Moonraker12 12:04, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gioco Piano

Giuoco Piano?, no it's Gioco Piano, Giuoco means nothing. --84.42.196.104 (talk) 15:58, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

That's what I always thought, and my Collins Gem confirms the word is "Gioco" meaning game. Also, Italian Wikipedia describes the opening as Gioco Piano, see http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partita_di_gioco_piano. However, most of the chess references I can find list it as "Guioco Piano". Can someone explain? 82.1.57.47 (talk) 08:43, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
No explanation but an observation that the 'Giuoco Piano' spelling is widespread in other wiki languages. [1] [2] [3] [4] SunCreator (talk) 21:40, 19 May 2008 (UTC)