Talk:Girl Guides

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Scouting Wiki Project Girl Guides is part of the Scouting WikiProject, an effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Scouting and Guiding on the Wikipedia. This includes but is not limited to boy and girl organizations, WAGGGS and WOSM organizations as well as those not so affiliated, country and region-specific topics, and anything else related to Scouting. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
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Girl Guiding and Girl Scouting task force

[edit] Title

Couldn't this page be deleted in favor of the Girl Guide and Girl Scout page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Runnerbee17 (talk • contribs) 04:04, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

No, this page is about the movement, Girl Guide and Girl Scout is about the section/agegroup. The "brother" of this page is Scouting, the "brother" of Girl Guide and Girl Scout is Boy Scout. --Egel Reaction? 09:23, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps it should be called Girl Guiding? The current titles are confusing! Kingbird (talk) 18:15, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
I leave that up to you GGGS Task Force Coordinator. — Rlevse • Talk • 21:42, 17 January 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Requested move

I propose this article be renamed Girl Guiding and Girl Scouting. The new title would more accurately reflect the article's subject. The current title, Girl Guides, is too similar to the article Girl Guide and is confusing. I additionally propose that the page Girl Guides redirects to Girl Guide and Girl Scout and that pages are created called Girl Guiding and Girl Scouting respectively, that redirect to this article. Kingbird (talk) 05:54, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

I should make it clear that the page Girl Guiding and Girl Scouting actually already exists. It currently redirects to Girl Guide and Girl Scout. This is confusing as well. With the changes I'm suggesting, if it ends in -ing, it's about the movement. If it doesn't end in -ing, it's about the section/age group. Kingbird (talk) 06:53, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Support, makes sense to me. Let's wait 3-5 days for more input. — Rlevse • Talk • 11:11, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Oppose at this point, because I think some preliminary centralised discussion should take place first, if it hasn't already (and if it has, then link to it please). There are at least two open related requests at this time: This RM, and a requested merge between Girl Guiding and Girl Scouting and Girl Guides.

The worldwide situation is extremely complicated and further organisational changes are inevitable in the long term, see Scouting#Co-educational.

There's an overall plan for the relevant articles at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Scouting which includes the observations

Girl Guide, Girl Scout - redirect to GG&GS (US line of thinking)

Gone stale, not move for now. — Rlevse • Talk • 17:59, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

and

Boy Scouts, Girl Guides, etc - General summary pages that have see also links to other Scouting pages. Used to avoid to lead users to more indepth articles, no longer disambiguation pages due to all the confusion of different naming conventions. All other plurals redirect to the singular per Wikipedia standard, not to Scouting or a separate organization oriented article

so rather than reinventing the wheel, let's see whether this plan is still a good one, and if not let's discuss and either abandon or update it rather than ignoring it. Andrewa (talk) 06:43, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

As you have requested a centralised discussion, I have opened one at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Scouting#Girl Guiding and Girl Scouting article modifications. I have responded to your comments there. Kingbird (talk) 05:55, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
I've left comments on WT:SCOUT that cover a number of articles with this type of issue. You can't separate the person from the movement; you can't have a Girl Scout without Girl Scouting and vice versa. In trying to create a universal article covering 144 different national Scout organizations with 144 different programs we end up with an article of generalities. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 12:58, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
This article should be titled "Guides" - a Guide in most countries now can be a girl or a boy - so the title is not gender correct. --Gothgirlangel1981 (talk) 18:00, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
You are wrong, only a third of the 144 Guide organizations admits boys. 34 of these 51 organizations call male members Scouts. --jergen (talk) 18:05, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Co-ed organizations call all members (male and female) Scouts or call the male members "Scouts" and the female members "Guides". Only Greece and some South-American countries have co-ed organizations who call all members Guides, total membership 70,000 to 80,000, so maybe there are maximal 20,000 male Guides. There are around 6,000,000 girls who call them selfs Girl Guides, around 3,500,000 girls who call them selfs Girl Scouts and around 3,000,000 to 6,000,000 girls who call them selfs Scouts. (I can't find how many female Scouts there are in Indonesia, looking at the pictures I think 30% to 50% of 8,000,000) So 0,3 % of the Guides are male and 15% of the Scouts are female. --Egel Reaction? 21:28, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
A broader discussion is at Talk:Boy Scout. — Rlevse • Talk • 12:04, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

For what it is worth, my daughter is a Guide in Queensland, Australia, and while there are non-co-ed guiding organisations like that in Australia, I think there should be a separate article with links to other scouting articles. Folding the Guides under Scouts would be a bit like folding USA under England. An article like this allows other scouting movement articles to be linked to in a way that clarifies Guidings relationship with the rest of the movement, rather than implying that Guiding is a sort of appendix to Scouting. Alexlaw65 (talk) 10:29, 17 February 2008 (UTC) (copied to the broader discussion --Egel Reaction? 11:51, 17 February 2008 (UTC))