Talk:Giorgio Napolitano

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page.
Biography Portal
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale. [FAQ]
This article is supported by the Politics and government work group.
Giorgio Napolitano is within the scope of WikiProject Italy, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles on Italy on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the Project's quality scale.
(If you rated the article please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.)
High This article has been rated as High-importance on the importance scale.
WikiProject Politics This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, an attempt to improve, organise and standardise Wikipedia's articles in the area of politics. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the assessment scale.
High This article is on a subject of High-importance in Politics.

Article Grading: The article has been rated for quality and/or importance but has no comments yet. If appropriate, please review the article and then leave comments here to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article and what work it will need.

Contents

[edit] Photo

The main picture of Napolitano does look like a joke (Neapolitan caricature?), who did insert it? Plch 12:07, 11 May 2006 (UTC) >>>I have controlled and the tag says 'frenchman'! I think I'll delete it soon!


[edit] Defamation

An anonymous user just inserted a paragraph describing an alleged refund fraud. This news is unverified, the source is the site "Silvio Berlusconi Fan Club" who cite "Libero", a right-wing Italian newspaper very close to Silvio Berlusconi. According to the Italian Wikipedia there are no other sources for this gossip. GhePeU 10:43, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Can't revert anymore. Please remove that unverified gossip. GhePeU 10:47, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree with the comments above: Libero is a right-wing paper well known for its propagandistic attack. If there is no other source to verify this news, it should be removed. 12:09, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Moreover anonymous user 84.222.114.138 keeps inserting that unverified gossip in a unacceptable POV manner. GhePeU 11:39, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I totally agree... Libero is the closest italian newspaper to Silvio BerlusconiDudo85

Libero is closer to Lega Nord, ("Northern League"), an ultra-right wing party. Anyway, the refund fraud did not involved directly Napolitano (who was only interviewed by the german TV "RTL" on the question), but only some german and austrian politicians. --Jollyroger 15:41, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
Libero is not close to Lega Nord, AT ALL! It is only close to Silvio Berlusconi and (some of) his party. Moreover, Lega Nord used to hate the person of Silvio Berlusconi, until he gave Lega Nord a substantial decisional power in his 1994 first government. --Emc² (CONTACT ME) 19:17, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mandate or admin?

instead of sayin his mandate starts may 15, can we say his administration start may 15? User:Briaboru

No, in Italy the President is mostly a representative figure. GhePeU 15:12, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

By the way Carlo Azeglio Ciampi is still technically the President of the Republic (his mandate ends on May 18). However, on May 15 he will resign, so that Napolitano might be sworn in that day as his successor. --Angelo 15:49, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article focus and Wikinews

I'm quite surprised to see so much editing here. This article should focus on the person. I would suggest using Wikinews to document the event, and only insert election-related information here when the dust will settle. --Gennaro Prota (talk) 16:51, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Question about lifetime senate seat and presidency

Does he now have to give up his senate seat? I'm a bit unfamiliar with this bit of Italian political trivia. youngamerican (talk) 17:22, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

  • Yes, he does. --Angelo 18:32, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
  • But I have another futile question: is he still a senator during his term? (BTW, if he isn't, our lead section shall be reworded) --Gennaro Prota (talk) 16:53, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

He was a senator for life before election and will be after his term expires. But according to the Italian Constitution (art.84)[[1]], "The office of president of the republic is incompatible with any other office". So technically, he is not a senator for life right now. (miic) HE HAS A DAUGHTER NAMED ISABELLA

[edit] occupying forces

"A graduate in law, Napolitano was active in the opposition against the nazi-fascist troops, founding in 1942 an anti-fascist and communist group which took part in several actions against the occupying forces." what exactly is meant by "occupying forces"? In 1942 Italy was still an ally of the Germans. --Greece666 20:52, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I believe it means the forces that were at war or something, I'll have to confirm my sources iThink4u 16:01, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
It means simply the nazifascists. --Angelo 21:04, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
Out of curiosity, how is "graduating with a degree in law" to be taken? He was 17 in 1942! :) --Gennaro Prota (talk) 06:29, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Angelo: He obviously means the Germans and the fascists. However, I think it is somehow misguiding to describe the fascists (in 1942 they were governing Italy) and the Germans (in 1942 they were allies of the Italians or at least of the fascist government) as "occupying forces". whether we like it or not (i dont) these people were governing the country. I think it would be more appropiate to simply say that "Napolitano joined the resistance". --Greece666 13:05, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Fixed. According to the Italian Wikipedia he graduated in 1947. GhePeU 07:07, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
After 8 september 1943 Italy was officially _occupied_ by german forces and by their fascist supporters (Repubblica di Salò). On 8 sept a treaty was signed by the new government and the Allies, where Italy surrended and joined the allied side. Partisans and resistance fought on mountains along with USA troops, then the phrase took part in several actions against the occupying forces. is formally correct. --Jollyroger 15:48, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

After Mussolini was removed from power, he was rescued by an airborne nazi SWAT team lead by Otto Skorzeny. The Musso then set up a fascists "Republic of Salo" which fought alongside the Wehrmacht to stop the anglo-saxon advance towards north. Eventually Musso was captured by italian freedom fighters, shot dead and hanged. There was a lot-of anti-fascist popular resistance in the Salo republic area.

[edit] Italy

Here is a man who would doubtless be living a luxurious life as a retired Soviet satrap while democrats languished in jail, if the Cold War had turned out differently, and they make him President! ReeseM 03:42, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk pages are not political forums, please keep the political chatter out of these talk pages and use them for their true purpose...discussing the article. Thank you.--Jersey Devil 06:22, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
Anyway, you are an idiot, Reese. --Jollyroger 15:48, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
Either way, its better than a facist president. Left-Wing Power! --GorillazFan Adam 19:47, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Big scandal

Here in Hungary there is a big media scandal about his election for italian pesidency and may even invoke diplomatic measures. G. N. was a card holding member of the italian communist party and in late 1956 he infamously voiced his support for the soviet military invasion to crush the hungarian revolution and freedom fight. He refused to retract on that declaration ever since. The modern post-communist Hungarian Republic officially defines itself as heir to the short-lived October 1956 democratic government and so it may be impossible for G. N. to visit Hungary as an official if he still thinks the soviet invasion was right.

(Otherwise Italy has two big problems, the commies and the mafia. If those two were eliminated Italy could become a strong industrial power, where honest-to-god money-counting capitalists do not need to worry about paying weekly bribes to the godfathers and labour strikes every second day. Currently Italy is heading for a value to north, scum to south split, a disintegration much like the former Yugoslavia.) 195.70.32.136 10:43, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Oh great, I was missing the guy who watched some movies and already knew all the problems about Italy and how to solve them. Please, the world survived without your stunnigly brilliant political analysis until yesterday, I bet it can go on for a little while without other poor excuses for comments like that. "honest-to-god money-counting capitalists" oh my god, this ain't scooby doo, things are a little more complicated than that. Even in pizza-land CarrKnight 10:46, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
In the italian version of this page the Hungarian facts are reported. Napolitano has since long declared that he regrets and is tormented by his position in those days. (AL)
Gee, I really feel for bad for the guy. Attila226 16:17, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gerontocracy?

Is it realistic to elect somebody who is of such advanced age? E.g. the USSR did not exactly beneift from the rule (or lack thereof) of Andropov and Chernenko... This issue should be discussed in the article. 195.70.32.136 10:59, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Sandro Pertini of the Italian Socialist Party, elected in 1978 at the age of 82 (one year older than Napolitano), is widely recognized in Italy as the best president ever. By the way, remember the president of the Republic has a very few power. --Angelo 11:26, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

As the article is experiencing continuous vandalism by anonymous IP users, I suggest to semi-protect it (i.e. allow changes for it just by registered users). --Angelo 15:38, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Agree. I just hate the fact that everywhen someone becomes very important, his page has to be protected against the usual idiot vandals. --DavidAlexandrov 21:09, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
It seems that vandals were just waiting for unprotection. What about closing the gates again? --Gennaro Prota (talk) 16:55, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
Today the article had been vandalized just one time. I think one time ain't enough. --Angelo 17:04, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
Hmm... I was almost convinced I had seen three deletions of contents. Maybe I just navigated too fast the chain of diffs ("Once isn't enough and twice is too much"... Lino Banfi docet ;)). --Gennaro Prota (talk) 17:51, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
Unfortunately having an ex-communist as President of the Repubblic in a chapitalistic country and in the XXI century leeds a lot of vandals, from both sides. Napolitano has had a past as many communist in Italy and this puts his fans in a difficult position (how to conceive his past communism -I must believe that now he is not communist anymore- with a democratic power in the present) and his enemies in an angry position (how to conceive to live in a democratic country having a President with an anti-democratic past). To protect the page will not necessarily help the truth about such complicate personality. --151.27.23.141 15:10, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The "Slavic barbarians" incident

I made it more clear that the man awarded a medal was a WW2 fascist (it would be nice to have his name, it would make the sentence more readable). I also added some of the highlights of his speach. Some of it is just plain laughable. "The greatest crime of the 20th century"? Why, according to European law he's ripe for prison time, for Holocaust denial... Slavic expansionism? Please. Frankly, I think the poor guy's either lost his mind, or is catering to a (hopefully small) audience of revisionist neo-fascists who would like more than anything to forget that Italy was during WW2 one of the axis powers. Either way, this incident is no laughing matter - it's a very serious affair. TomorrowTime 19:56, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

He didn't say that the foibe massacres were the greatest crime of the 20th century, but that they were "one of the barbarities of past century," and his speech condemned the Italian parties who minimized or denied the killing for "political blindness" or "diplomatic self-interests and international convenience." Moreover, nobody can deny that Yugoslavia ("Slavic" refers to Yugoslavia) in 1945 wanted to annex Istria and Venetia Giulia: with the 1947 peace treaty they did it. GhePeU 01:04, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
Ghepeu, Napolitano was obviously buying votes from right-oriented voters. This is common policy in many countries. But I think he went too far with this. Luckily for him, EC took his side and protected him, and he managed to silently excuse to Croatian president, so that the entire presedan is forgotten. The problem of esuli and foibe is somewhat overrated in part because some of those people would like to forget their fascist past by saying "all did crimes". But not all were on the side of Nazis. But let's not forget that Italy started to pay out pensions to it's fascist officers in Croatia and Slovenia after the fall of Yugosavia, also to buy votes from extremly-right oriented voters (fascist). I beleive Napolitano has lost some of his international credits with support of this kind of behaviour. I for sure know he and Prodi lost their Croatian supporters, which don't like the locals (in Slovenia and Croatia) hating Italians because of what some former fascist yell at their rallies "back home". Remember the "Our Tito" incident in Gorizia,... --Sinjanin
Buying what? The Presidency of the Italian Republic is a well-known non-partisan office, every president is supposed to resign from his party before to take that position. Anyway, this is not the right place to discuss this stuff, Wikipedia is not a forum. I am going to change your claim about Serrentino: he was killed by the Tito supporters during the foibe massacres, that is the reason why he probably received this posthumous honour, not because he was fascist. --Angelo 23:11, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
Buying votes for the right-oriented voters? Napolitano is a communist! Why should he do that? Sinjanin, you know nothing of Italian politics, and it does show. So please, shut up. --Gspinoza 20:24, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
How relevant is that he is communist if he gives the medal to the fascist and by that giving the tribute to the fascism??!!!???--Anto (talk) 19:26, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Garbled trivia

'In his youth, Napolitano was an actor. He played in a comedy by Salvatore Di Giacomo and as leading actor in Viaggio a Cardiff by William Butler Yeats, both at Teatro Mercadante in Naples. He later measured himself against Joyce and Eliot.'

There is not, as far as I know, a play by W.B. Yeats called 'Viaggio a Cardiff'; no Yeats bibliography I've been able to consult has any such title or anything that could be translated into such a title. Also, I don't know what the third sentence in this extract means. I suspect that English is not the first language of whoever wrote it. Lexo 12:37, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Viaggio a Cardiff could be a translated name, but don't know of what play.
Anyway, it is a copyviol from a newspaper, just translated. Should be rewritten anyway --Jollyroger 14:19, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] EU are terrorist?

I removed this claim about the Eurosceptics being defined terrorist by President Napolitano. What he actually said is[2]:

"Si fa terrorismo psicologico, agitando lo spettro di un Super-Stato europeo, quasi fosse un grande mostro governato da chi sa quale potenza occulta che invade tutti i campi"

In English it sounds like

"It is psychological terrorism to suggest the spectre of a European superstate, like it would be a big monster led by such a hdden power invading all the fields"

There's no mention about Eurosceptics being defined terrorists as you can see. --Angelo 01:04, 19 June 2007 (UTC)