Talk:Ginkgo biloba

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Nowadays ginkyo is not a popular reading in Japan; ichô or ginnan sounds better. -- Anon

Arigato. Added. --Menchi 18:13 24 Jun 2003 (UTC)


I was spelling Ginkgo as Gingko until I did a web search and found out I was the only one misspelling it. I don't think we should offer gingko as an alternative spelling. jaknouse 06:27, 17 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Agreed! - MPF 12:54, 17 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Whatever the spelling, it should be the same throughout the article. "Ginkgo" is correct?


According to Webster, both spellings are correct. http://www.webster.com/dictionary/Gingko

A reference would be nice to some of these 300 surveys; also: is ginkgo supposed to be a vasodilator? That's what the description sounds like. If so, the list of claimed benefits could perhaps be listed as claimed benefits of taking vasodilators every day. Also, have the effects of long-term use been studied? I know long term us of vasoconstrictors and coagulants such as nicotine can be very harmful. --Andrew 17:42, May 2, 2004 (UTC)


if it "increases blood flow" but may cause headaches, is this simply a way of saying that it is a vasodialator?

Contents

[edit] nutty morphology

I edited out use of the words "fruit" and "nut" since this only confuses the issue. Since Ginkgo is a gymnosperm it has no fruit. Nuts are a particular kind of fruit and thus inappropriate. The fleshy "thing" in this case is a modified cone with one ovule, and the hard "thing" in the center is the seed.

The fleshy "thing" is part of the seed coat, the sarcotesta. The hard part inside is the next layer of the seed coat, the sclerotesta.--Curtis Clark 14:37, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
But Ginkgo isn't a conifer, so it can't be called a "cone", either . . . - MPF 01:55, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] conservation status

I'm a little confused. How can something widely cultivated for profit be deemed "endangered"? - knoodelhed 17:05, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The conservation status only refers to wild populations, not cultivated - MPF 20:59, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
Could this be noted as Endangered in China? Is it even endangered everywhere it naturally occurs?

[edit] Overzealous nonsense

...in the Medical section is really over the top. There NEEDS to be a refrence to all these medical claims. It reads like some 19th. century snakeoil panacea.--Deglr6328 05:00, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Exp Neurol. 2003 Nov;184(1):510-20. Prevention of age-related spatial memory deficits in a transgenic mouse model of Alzheimer's disease by chronic Ginkgo biloba treatment., Stackman et al. The study showed differences in spatial memory retention in Tg2576 mice given ginkgo extracts in water for six months versus those given plain water.

The International Journal of Neuropsychopharmacology (2001), 4: 131-134 Cambridge University Press. Neuropsychological changes after 30-day Ginkgo biloba administration in healthy participants, Con Stough, Jodi Clarke, Jenny Lloyd, and Pradeep J. Nathan, Swinburne University of Technology, Melbourne, Australia. Placebo controlled double-blind study showed "significant improvements" in subjects given Ginkgo biloba extract. Carlaclaws 22:20, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I noticed that the "Medical section" still is very poorly referenced. I've just removed a statement purporting that Ginkgo is a sexual stimulant, and which didn't cite any sources or give any details about which part of the plants (leaves, seeds??) may bring about this effect. I'm fairly sure that some of the biological effects of the Ginkgo terpenes have been studied. I'll try to find out more, and include any info and references I can find. Malljaja 21:22, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ginkgopsida

All my references are at work, but I've never seen the spelling "Ginkgoopsida". A total pedant could claim that because the root word is not Greek or Latin, the vowel shouldn't elide, but common practice among botanists has been to elide, especially when the alternative results in a double vowel. Yes, it is Ginkgoaceae, not Ginkgaceae, but note Magnoliopsida, not Magnoliaopsida.--Curtis Clark 14:42, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Ginkgoopsida is correct (e.g. ITIS, Gymnosperm Database, USDA Plants Database); as you correctly point out, Ginkgo is not Greek or Latin; the root is Ginkgo, unlike Magnolia, which is a Latinised derivative of the root name [Pierre] Magnol, Magnoli-. So it is correct for Magnolia to drop its final -a (so thus, Magnoliaceae not Magnoliaaceae), but not for Ginkgo to drop its final -o. - MPF 18:14, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
Wow! Someone who is more of a pedant that I am! If the ICBN regulated names above the family level, Reccomendation 60G Note 1 ("In forming some other apparently irregular compounds, classical usage is commonly followed.") would suggest Ginkgopsida. I'll make the trek to my Biology office tomorrow and see if I can document some uses, so I can at least list both spellings.--Curtis Clark 20:01, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Internal organization considered not harmful

There is really no need to remove the subheads in the plant description, as MPF did. The arrangement is standard among botanists, and it makes the information more easily accessible in the table of contents. It seems especially strange to leave reproduction with a subhead, while removing the rest.--Curtis Clark 14:32, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

And I apologise for reverting the rest of your changes--because of the removed subject headers, the diff wasn't especially useful. I think I'll revert back to your version and re-insert the subheads.--Curtis Clark 15:42, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Resistance to mutation

I've been reading a lot about Ginkgo trees having a high tolerance to radiation poisoning, in addition to its' other high tolerances. Is this true, and if it is true- how can that be true?

Wouldn't any living thing have the same problem with nuclear radiation? But I've read something about old ginkgo trees living near the Hiroshima ground zero, healthy and unmutated.

[edit] Fruit?

There seems to be an inconsitency in the article. The introduction says that the tree does not produce fruit, yet two pictures in the article refer to "fruit". Are they really seeds that just look like fruit? Deli nk 14:42, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes. The fleshy outer layer of the seed (the sarcotesta) makes them seem fruit-like.--Curtis Clark 15:14, 27 January 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Anything eat it?

I was told that no wild animal eats the leaves of the ginkgo plant. If this is true I think that is very interesting. If not, listing the animals that do eat it would be good. Thanks a lot.

  • I ate a Ginkgo leaf once. It didn't taste too good. Kalmia 06:09, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
what did it taste like?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.15.55.127 (talk) 03:29, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] deletion

I removed "An overdose of the pulp could cause poisoning because the pulp produces hydrogen cyanide as a side product" from Cultivation and Uses; in its context, it appears to refer to the sarcotesta, which is unpalatable and not ordinarily eaten. I'm not sure whether that or the gametophyte was the intended meaning of "pulp".--Curtis Clark 04:46, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alternative but not misspelled

Current dictionaries like Merriam-Webster still define Gingko as an alternative spelling not an incorrect spelling. No reason that edit should have been reverted. I understand that Ginkgos is the same as Ginkgoes and I am fine with that reversion. Do not revert without giving a reason though. --User:Asphaltbuffet 18:44, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Every other text I've seen treats it as a misspelling. Merriam-Webster is very much an exception here, and I don't see what justification they can possibly have for legitimising it. - MPF 11:30, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
You can also verify it at the Encyclopædia Britannica and the American Heritage® Dictionary. - Asphalt Buffet 15:48, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
Find me one even half-way authoritative botanical publication that accepts it as an alternative spelling, and I might reconsider - though I doubt it, as I just checked over a dozen and couldn't find any that cited it so (yes, I can list them if you really want). Sorry, but dictionaries often have a very poor understanding of science topics; I don't consider them authoritative on matters like this. - MPF 22:19, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] redundancy department of redundancy

Under the "side effects" section, it used to read:

"If any side effects are experienced consumption should be halted immediately. Ginkgo supplements are usually taken in the range of 40–200 mg per day. If the side effects continue usage should be stopped completely."

The first and third sentences are pretty redundant, so I'm deleting one.

Since when exactly is ginkgophyta an existing division? As far as I know (and I´m damn shure about it) Ginkgo is part of the division Spermatophyta, subdivision Coniferophytina, class Ginkgoopsida. The article states different, and I´d like to know why it does (perhaps I can learn a fair bit).—Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.136.149.95 (talk • contribs)

Different classifications. Many textbooks of the 1970s–1990s treated the major groups of seed plants as separate divisions.--Curtis Clark 06:10, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Medical interactions?

Hello. I've been reading up on Ginkgo, and I plan to begin taking it as a supplement. Does it interact with medications such as SSRI's or other antidepressants, for instance, wellbutrin or the atypical antipsychotic seroquel?--Neur0tikX .talk 21:47, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


I haven't found any information on Seroquel (quetiapine) interactions with gingko.

There are a few known interactions with antidepressants. The page currently states that "should also not be used by people who are taking certain types of antidepressants (MAOIs and SSRIs[26][27])", which are based upon animal testing.

In contrast, there have been numerous studies examining the use of ginkgo biloba to offset the side-effects of SSRIs, in particular as related to sexual dysfunction. The studies vary in results, but more importantly I have been unable to find any references to adverse side-effects combining SSRIs and ginkgo in any of these studies. As a result, I think stating that SSRIs should not be used with ginkgo is exaggerated and incorrect.

There is also a single documented case of an 80 year old patient on both Ginkgo and trazedone (a benzodiazepine) going into a benzodiazepine overdose coma. The involvement of Ginkgo is theorized, as the patient was never on ginkgo with any other benzodiazepine or on trazedone without ginkgo. She has been nonresponsive to another breed of benzodiazepine, while ginkgo and trazedone caused a marked improvement prior to her overdose. The number of search results linking Ginkgo to comas is abnormally high for a single case in which Ginkgo was suspected of involvement without any actual evidence. See the full article on this incident. This may merit mention that Ginkgo should not be combined with benzodiazepines. -- Anonymous - 12:25, 1 May 2008

[edit] bad user editing

someone put loserpants at the end of the leaves section i cant find it please fix it thnx —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.222.36.88 (talk) 22:27, 22 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Ignorant editors

Okay, I give up. Since only a handful of Wikipedia editors seem to know what "habit" means in this context, and all the rest routinely change it to "habitat", which makes no sense in the context, I've changed it to "morphology". I wonder what people will change that to?--Curtis Clark 03:45, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Various Observations

Given that Gingko (EunHang) is a very popular commercial product in Japan, China and Korea, it seems reasonable to as that citation be provided as to its being thought extinct and subsequently discovered in a couple of limited valleys. Gingko is very widespread in Korea and to a lesser degree in Japan - when was it rediscovered? Introduced to other countries? Cultivated? I have not deleted the pertinent sentences, but they are particularly suspect.

Additionally, in Romanization schemes, Korean and Japanese put 'ng' before 'k' so Gingko is the preferred romanization in these countries - see a Japanese Yen banknote; as 'Gingko' also means 'bank' it is printed on the currency in romanized form. This leads me to question the 'misspelling' etymology of the word as well, given that EunHang is Korean for both the plant/tree and 'bank' and the Japanese spell bank 'Gingko' then it is unlikely to be a western misspelling.

Eh? I've never seen ngk in romanized Japanese; it's nk. —Tamfang 08:51, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Finally, Gingko is a common food in Asia, eaten in the autumn, it's nut soft and fruitlike. It is eaten cooked to remove the bitter toxins (much like cashew and other nuts) but hardly poisonous if eaten raw (it's bitterness limits such consumption, so poisonings are rarely, if ever reported..

All I really wanted to know is when it first appears in the fossil record...

[edit] Female ginkgo fruit smells like feces

I would like to add to the text that the female ginkgo fruit smells like feces, which it most definitely does, but my edit was taken out. How can anyone say that this odor is the smell of "rancid butter" but not feces? Ridiculous! Everyone knows it smells like feces. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.80.148.218 (talk) 22:44, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

  • Well, not everyone knows, but generally, yes. It smells like feces. I restored the addition, but please come up with a citable source which describes the odor as such. With respect to Curtis Clark's reason for removal, I think that an analysis of the varying composition and odors of feces is beyond the scope of this article. — Bigwyrm watch mewake me 23:46, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
    • Here is a good Google search for anybody who wants to start tracking down a quotable source. — Bigwyrm watch mewake me 00:53, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
My previous addition here seems to have been eaten by a server glitch, but I opined that having feces that smell like Ginkgo seeds would be a reason for medical alarm, and that although I don't have a big sample size of human feces (and most of that was quite unwelcome), I have yet to encounter feces of humans, dogs, cats, rats, mice, gerbils, cotton rats, rabbits, deer, wapiti, cows, horses, sheep, iguanas, cockatiels, seagulls, or parakeets that smells more like Ginkgo seeds than rancid butter does (which I have also unfortunately smelled). I added that I have smelled many hundreds of Ginkgo seeds (albeit from only three trees), since I used to use them for lab. It all smells to me like original research, --Curtis Clark 03:55, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Food vs. medicine

Ginkgo is a tree, a food, and an herbal medicine. But exactly how are these related? The herbal form is a "leaf extract" -- extracted how? When did this start? Is this a traditional Eastern practice -- for how long? How did they do the extraction? Does eating the seed as a food have some of the same potential benefits, or are the chemicals in the leaves absent from the seed? Is the food only a potential danger to children, as implied by the article now, or is it just a matter that adults would have to eat proportionally more to have a bad effect? -69.87.199.55 (talk) 00:21, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

"The tinctures and capsules of ginkgo biloba that you buy in stores contain extracts of leaves of the tree that is widely planted in cities and parks in North America. But I'm sorry to tell you that leaves you collect from these trees won't do you any good. In fact, they're more likely to irritate your stomach than to provide any of the positive effects you might expect. The extraction process used to make the popular herbal remedy removes the irritants and concentrates the beneficial components. However, if you have a female ginkgo tree, you can eat the nuts it produces. Ginkgo nuts are often used in Asian cooking. They have no medicinal properties, but are tasty when cooked. To get to the nut, you have to go through a pulpy layer of a persimmon-like fruit that is rather smelly (which is why female ginkgo trees and their nuts are not popular here). The nuts themselves resemble chickpeas and taste like chestnuts. To prepare them for eating, you first must peel or blanch them and then boil or roast them. In Asian cuisines they are added to soups, stir fry's, and desserts. If your tree is not female (not producing fruit), you can buy dried or canned ginkgo nuts in most Asian groceries. One ounce provides 97 calories, one gram of fat, no cholesterol, four milligrams of sodium and no fiber." [1]

These factoids would seem to belong in the article in some form:

  • biloba translates as "two-lobed", referring to the split-in-the-middle character of its fan-shaped leaf blades.
  • The Chinese have used Ginkgo for thousands of years for various ailments.
  • Ginkgo Biloba was first introduced to Europe in the 1700's
  • The Chinese have used Ginkgo Biloba to relief asthma, lung congestion, and have also used Ginkgo Biloba to increase sexual energy, regulate blood flow, and promote general longevity.
  • Ginkgo biloba leaf extract is the most widely sold phytomedicine in Europe
  • The standardized preparation of Ginkgo biloba extract is EGb 761.
  • The standardized ginkgo biloba extract (GBE) requires a 50:1 ratio of leaves to extract, and extraction of GBE from the leaves is a very long process.
  • Standardized preparations contain 24 percent ginkgo flavonoid glycosides, 6 percent terpene lactones, and no more than 5 parts per million ginkgolic acids.
  • Ginkgo Flavonglycosides: Quercetin, Kaempferol, Isorhamnetin
  • Ginkgo Terpene Lactones: Bilobalide, Ginkgolide A, B, & C
  • Some supplements include whole ground Ginkgo biloba leaf
  • A review of five heterogenous randomized controlled trials concluded that extracts of ginkgo biloba are moderately effective in treating tinnitus.
  • During the past 20 years, an estimated 2 billion daily doses (120 mg) of ginkgo have been sold.
  • The unprocessed ginkgo leaf contains ginkgolic acids that are toxic.
  • An initial period of six to 12 weeks is recommended to assess the effectiveness of ginkgo, although results have been seen as early as four weeks.
  • The monthly cost for the usual daily dose of 120 mg is approximately $15 to $20.

-69.87.199.55 (talk) 01:10, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Splitting article?

OK, is it time to split into 2 articles - one focussing on genus + extinct species + fossil record + evolution, the other on the species. If so what do we call them?

What do we reckon folks? Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:59, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Option 1

  • Ginkgo (genus) and Ginkgo, referring to common name

[edit] Option 2

  1. .If there are multiple species (even extinct ones) then it should be Ginkgo and Ginkgo biloba. Hesperian 10:08, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
  2. Agreed, as the article stands, it's unclear whether certain information applies to the genus (including species past and present) or just G. biloba --Melburnian (talk) 10:49, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
  3. Agreed. Similar to Aldrovanda and Aldrovanda vesiculosa. --Rkitko (talk) 12:25, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
  4. Agree. Ginkgo could have a hatnote pointing to the species.--Curtis Clark (talk) 13:48, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
  5. Agree. As per the prevailing sentiment, and ignoring for a minute that it's going to be a little tough fleshing out the genus section. As far as I can see, a useful starting point is the clumsily named prehistory section, but circumscribing a genus solely on fossil records is tenuous, so it'll need some dedicated work. Malljaja (talk) 17:16, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
  6. Agree as per everyone else ;) DJLayton4 (talk) 23:04, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
(calling it evolution would be what we've done in some other genus articles with the same issues I think).... Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 19:27, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Logistics question

  • OK, I'll leave this open for another day or two, but thought of one more thing - presuming this article to date had been 99% based on the species, would it be prudent to move page history and talk page history from Ginkgo to Ginkgo biloba and then sprout a new genus article from the newly-created redirect page? Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:04, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
  1. Agree totally, for the reason given.--Curtis Clark (talk) 13:49, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
  2. Yes DJLayton4 (talk) 20:33, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
  3. Yes. The article was started (and has largely continued) on the topic of "ginkgo" in the sense of the common name (=G. biloba) rather than the genus Ginkgo. Melburnian (talk) 23:44, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] OK moved

OK, now moved. I have to disappear for a few hours. Anyone want to start on the (not insignificant) job of the redirects? Most, but not all, will go to G. biloba....I can do later if everyone else is busy Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:08, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Ginkgo biloba (5 votes) is April Plant Collaboration

Nominated March 14th, 2008; Support:

  1. Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:33, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
  2. Rkitko (talk) 11:58, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
  3. --SB_Johnny | talk 12:56, 14 March 2008 (UTC) (I can do some work on cultivar lists and/or articles)
  4. EncycloPetey (talk) 15:31, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
  5. DJLayton4 (talk) 17:56, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Comments:

  • a living fossil, lots of paleontology and chinese medicine and horticulture all to boot. As it is a species, a lot more circumscribed and may be a lot more doable first off
  • Since there are fossil species in this genus, the article will need to cover them as well, since it is the genus article. --EncycloPetey (talk) 15:31, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
Good point. I guess the first port-of-call will be to decide what information goes where and split off G. biloba...with living and fossil lsited and briefly described at a genus page. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:44, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] To-Do List....

OK then, more material to include:

  • Clarify when Linnaeus named it and what reference.
  • Lots of citing of material! *(Flora of China and North America have description and lots of basic facts)
  • Section on culture (Goethe Poem, in Buddhism, etc.)

[edit] Duplicate text

The entire Prehistory section is duplicated word for word in the article on the plant's genus, Ginkgo. Do we really need to have two identical copies saying the exact same thing in different places? 75.210.111.166 (talk) 15:01, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

No. This is the result of a quick split of the two articles not long ago. --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:50, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Spelling

In the opening sentence of the article it states "The Ginkgo (Ginkgo biloba; in Chinese '銀杏', pinyin romanization, yín xìng), frequently misspelled as "Gingko"," Could someone clarify the fact "Ginkgo" is apparently a wrong spelling of "ginkgo" - total contradiction Stuart McN (talk) 22:51, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

The correct Latin spelling is Ginkgo, whereas Gingko (where g and k have swapped) is a frequent misspelling--so the first sentence is correct, although it's easy to miss the small switch in these two letters. Malljaja (talk) 23:13, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
My bad, sorry - didn't notice the two letters had been swapped Stuart McN (talk) 23:46, 16 May 2008 (UTC)