Talk:Ghazal

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Contents

[edit] SUGGESTED CHANGES

Ghazal has its origin in Arabic. The introduction should mention Arabic origin and then it should be divided into AT LEAST two parts (Farsi and Urdu and possibly also Turkish).

It should mention in the intro. that Ghazal was an integral part of Arabic Qasida (pre-Islamic esp). and there were two types of ghazals in these Qasida: ghazal 'uthri which describes the girl including her physical characters and often private body parts and the other type (I forgot the name). AND there should also be a mention of the etymology of the Arabic word Ghazal(with REFERENCE to Hans Wehr or Al-Mawrad dictionary). Then it should mention that ghazal as a separate genre was developed in Farsi and from Farsi, it was later adapted into Turkish (first) and later in Urdu.

First sub-section must be about Ghazal in Farsi (chronological divisions only)

Second section perhaps Urdu.

A third section about Ghazals in other languages: Bengali, Marathi, Sindhi, Gujrati, Seraiki, Uzbek, Kazak, etc. And English. 78.149.168.132 (talk) 01:23, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Ghazal in Urdu??!!

The article is based mostly on Urdu language's poetry. It contains some points which are completely inappropriate. Since Ghazal is originally a form of poetry in Persian language, this article should directly focus on the original concept of Ghazal (i.e. Ghazal in Persian Poetry). Another article should be created as Ghazal (Urdu Poetry), and the majority of the contents of this article should be moved to that article.

Ghazal is a very vast subject (more than it seems), it needs an extensive and scholarly research. I will be trying to start working on this theme in the future, but since I am much busy, other members who are well-informed in Persian literature, mainly Iranians or Afghans, can go for it. Ariana310 17:32, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

ARIANA has a point. However all nationalists should be careful. Ghazal has its origin in Arabic even if Ariana will not be very happy to be reminded of it. OK. YES. This article SHOULD be divided into AT LEAST two parts (Farsi and Urdu and possibly also Turkish). It should mention in the intro. that Ghazal was an integral part of Arabic Qasida (pre-Islamic esp). and there were two types of ghazals in these Qasida: ghazal 'uzri which desscribes the girl including her physical characters and often private body parts and the other type (I forgot the name). AND there should also be a mention of the etymology of the Arabic word Ghazal. Then it should mention that ghazal as a seperate genre was developed in Farsi and from Farsi, it was later adapted into Turkish (first) and later in Urdu.
First sub-section must be about Ghazal in Farsi (since chronologically Farsi ghazals were being written when Urdu did not exist). (BTW I am Pakistani)
Second section perhaps Urdu.
A third section about Ghazals in other languages: Bengali, Marathi, Sindhi, Gujrati, Seraiki, Uzbek, Kazak, etc. And English.78.149.168.132 (talk) 01:07, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Etymology of Ghazal

The article states:

Etymologically, the word literally refers to "the mortal cry of a gazelle". The animal is caled Ghizaal, from which the English word gazelles stems, or Kastori haran (where haran refers to deer) in Urdu.
the original writer didn't know Urdu, Arabic or (apparently) much English. Kastori hiran is musk-deer. Gazelle is called chinkara in Urdu. For Arabic etymology see my comment below 78.149.168.132 (talk) 01:26, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

The etymology of the word is incorrect. Ghazal is a loanword from Arabic Ghazal غَزَل, also a genre of poetry specifically to speak of love. The word ghazal itself in Arabic means exactly that, to exchange with the one you love words of love. Ghazaal غَزَال (not ghizaal) on the other hand is indeed a dear (in general) and is the etymological source of the English gazelle. Ghazaal is of the same root and was derived from ghazal (to speak of love), not the other way round. --Maha Odeh (talk) 09:56, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Both of you are wrong. Please look at Hans Wehr's definitive <A Dictionary of Written Arabic> for the translation and etymology. Maha you can/ must also look in Lisan al-Arab. Clearly Ghazal and Ghazaal come from the same root Gh-z-l also any Arabic speaker will also know that the verb 'to spin' also comes from the same root. So to spin, to beautify, and by extension love (Notice: Al-Sayyuti and Hans Wehr both will tell you that 'love' is only by extension, the meaning of gh-z-l, not directly) and to speak of love, also love which is for the beautiful things and for the beauty that is spun (both in the sense of 'created' as well as spun in words). Therefor, a gazelle is called Ghazaal because it is beautiful and lovely in it's (created) form and an object of much poetic ('spun') contemplation. Also the Arabic word for cotton-candy is derived from the gh-z-l root —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.149.168.132 (talk) 01:16, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Confusing Urdu Genre with Persian and Arabic

Each of the three is totally distinct, Arabs do not write ghazal using the same rules mentioned nor using the Persian rules; while all share the name, it (the common name) merely reflects the one connection that is directly related to the name: the fact that the poem describes the love of the poet for his (or her) lover. I think that either this article should be moved to "Urdu Ghazal" (maybe "Ghazal (Urdu) or that it should be re-written to explain that. --Maha Odeh (talk) 10:06, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Notes Section?

Just saying: the notes section here means nothing to me, the casual encyclopedia reader. Does it serve any useful purpose? 71.238.152.124 (talk) 02:39, 24 January 2008 (UTC)