Talk:Gestapo

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Gestapo was a good article, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Delisted version: February 6, 2007
Gestapo was the collaboration of the week for the week starting on September 5, 2004.

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Contents

[edit] HELP IMPROVE THIS POOR ARTICLE

I corrected the uniform section THIS IS NOT VANDALISM. Please do not revert to a previous version when clearly it is worse. If you try to revert justify on talk page or you will be reported. Thanks Deadjune1 15:45, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removed text about gas vans

"The first gas van or "dushegubka" (literary - 'soul-destroyer') was used for mass executions in USSR by the NKVD in 1936. It was invented by the Chief of the Administrative Department of the NKVD in the Moscow region Berg Isay Davidovich. The Gestapo learned about this method in about 1940, when close collaboration & information exchange with the NKVD was established. Starting in December 1941, the Nazis used gas vans for the execution of Jews." There was never any proof for this claim. Earliest use was by the fascists themselfs in the anti-communist propagandacampagne to discredit the USSR. Western powers also pick it up at the start of the cold war in their anti-communist campagnes. But never any facts to proof it have been found.

[edit] POLISH COUNTERINTELLIGENCE

There seems to be an mistake at the end of the article:

"As late as June 6, 1944 Heinrich Mueller, head of the Gestapo, concerned about the leakage of information to the allied forces, set up a special unit called Sonderkommando Jerzy, designed to root out the Polish intelligence network in western and southwestern Europe."

Poland is east in Europe, so I guess it should be eastern and southeaster Europe....?

I am however no expert in this so I leave it to others to check it out. Ulflarsen 11:44, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Doesn't have to be, although Poland is in Eastern Europe, (one of) their intelligence networks doesn't need to be


I'm not so sure there isn't another mistake. In the list of people executed by the Gestapo, Carl Friedrich Goerdeler's name is to be found, but I am sure that he was hanged at Plötzensee Prison in Berlin after an atrociously unfair trial at the Volksgerichtshof. Kelisi 15:48, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I have now checked the link, and the story says that he was tortured by the Gestapo. I am quite sure that he was put to death at Plötzensee, though, which was not a Gestapo institution. I shall remove Goerdeler from the list. He was murdered by the Nazis all right, but it is inaccurate to say that the Gestapo actually killed him. Kelisi 15:52, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Structural issues

First i'd like to mention i really like the article so far. Although I think it should first tell the organisation and the issues of the Gestapo and then it should state, what has been done with the given power and how it was missused. In his current state the article emphazises (in my opinion) too much on the criminal history, the dirty deeds. Things, the Gestapo is already well known for, it's not like anybody wants to deny that, no way! I just think, with first giving only the structural facts and simple history of becoming and then the misuse (maybe a too weak expression) people reading the article will understand more, why this was tolerated back then, because it was sold to the people as a legal procedure and it was something, that happened over time and waswell placed into the general development. Another thing I'd like to mention is the first picture showing Himmler and Hilter, the text under the pictue states :"...chief of the SS (responsible for rounding up Jews)..." I think it would be more correct and neutral leave the "responsible for rounding up Jews" part out. And please don't start scream about any lies or something like denying history, that's not why! It's just not that you can reduce Himmler and the SS to this one horrofic crime, the list ist way much longer. Also, the bracketes (i mean these ) may also be understood as a comment on Himmler, where it would be quite too simple, if not wrong, to say he was responsible for it, he was, but not entirely alone. Last but not least the last part say "during the holochaust", wich could be understood as if Hitler and Himmler where just having a nice Sunday afternoon wtaching the Gestapo eliminating some dozens again. Actually, Hitler did'nt have the guts for that, as far as i know, he has only once or twice seen a camp, where (later) mass murdering became daily routine. For Himmler, I can't give any comment, but sure it would be better to just state "during the Nazi reign", also it can't be so hard to find out, on which occasion the picture was made. Again, it may not seem so, but i really liked the article, that's why i had to say a bit more. maybe, if you'd like, you can find some help or sources for links related to the article on german archive sites, also i can only remember: http://www.archive.nrw.de/ But I am sure, that the Hauptstaatsarchive Düsseldorf (main state archive Düsseldorf)has some records on the Gestapo. - thx, HellRaiser

[edit] Opposition from within Germany

I have corrected the minor inaccuracy around the von Stauffenberg assassination attempt. The bomb did not go off in Hitler's office and Hitler was not saved by an oak desk. The correct account can be found in the Claus von Stauffenberg article:

Although four people were killed and almost all present were injured, Hitler was injured only lightly as he was shielded from the blast by a conference table.

This version of events is also backed up by the account in the biography of Hitler: Hitler: 1936–1945 Nemesis by Ian Kershaw --Etimbo | Talk 20:25, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)


The section on Keeping Hitler in Power ("The German opposition was in an unenviable position...") gives the impression that there was a credible, organised opposition within Germany which could have negotiated terms of a truce with the Allies, and that it was Allied inflexibility that prolonged the war. The opposition groups were small, hidden, and with no common agenda or ability to speak for large sections of the population or to carry enough of the the military with it in order to overthrow the Nazi regime, and so could hardly have convinced the Allies to end the war. Cavort 00:18, 29 November 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Acronym or portmanteau

I disagree with the recent edit asserting that the name is an acronym and not a portmanteau. Since it uses parts of the component words, and not just the initial letters, it seems more like a portmaneau to me. --Jeff Worthington 14:58, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] History

"...served as the Bavarian Police President and used local SS units as a policial police force." I think policial must be a mistake... they most likely meant political Scmdn 03:01, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The Daily Operations of the Gestapo (Copyedit)

Re "the creditable denunciations from less creditable ones": Should this perhaps be credible, or did the Gestapo assign credits to some denunciations? I am hesitant to change it to credible in case that is not what was meant. Peter T.S. 03:08, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

You are quite right. It should read credible rather then creditable. Dammed spell-checker. However, Robert Gellately in his book The Gestapo and German society : enforcing racial policy does mention that those who made credible denunciations were thanked by the Gestapo for their time while those who persistently made false denunciations were sometimes shipped off to concentration camps for wasting the Gestapo's time. Thanks for sporting my mistake.A.S. Brown 05:58, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

OK, I've changed that paragraph. I wonder how the Gestapo could tell whether denunciations were sincere...? Peter T.S. 01:53, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

The Gestapo determined whatever the denunciations were true or not during the course of their investigations. Every denunciation, no matter how silly had to be investigated. But because the ratio of Gestapo officers to the general public was very lop-sided (for a example, in the region of Lower Franconia, which had about 1 million people in the 1930s, there was only one Gestapo post, which comprised 28 people, half of whom were clerical workers) and because every day the Gestapo received hundreds of denunciations, many of these investigations were done in an pretty cursorily manner. The more serious-sounding denunciations were given first priority while the more ludicrous-sounding denunciations were put on the back burner.

Sometimes, if the Gestapo were serious about investigating someone, the investigation would take months, and sometimes even years because there were so many denunciations and not enough investigators or time. Also, some matters were more important to the Gestapo then others. Allegations of sex between Jewish and “Aryan” Germans in the 1930s and later, during World War Two, between Germans and Polish workers brought to Germany were always given the first priority because success in these sorts of cases brought rapid promotion.A.S. Brown 20:51, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

I think there may be a mistake in the gestapo organisation section D, should alients in fact read aliens

[edit] What is this supposed to mean?

I was reading through this article, and came upon:

Several Hitler assassination plots were planned, albeit mostly in abject terms.

Abject? To quote our friend Inigo Montoya, I do not think it means what you think it means. Perhaps abstract is the right word here? I'm not sure what that editor was trying to say, otherwise I'd make the edit myself. -- Wwagner 17:23, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Protection

Taking a look at the edit history, this article has been hit heavily by anon ip vandals throughout the month of April. At this point, a period of protection is in order so the article has been proteced against new and unregistered users. After a period of calming down, we can probably unprotect without too much issue. -Husnock 14:28, 20 April 2006 (UTC). yes sir

[edit] About the name Gestapo

Apparently the name Gestapo was created by a Berlin postal official who wanted a name that would fit on a regulation-sized postal rubber stamp. Gestapo was derived from seven letters within the full name Geheime Staats Polizei. Unknowingly, the postal official had invented one of the most notorious names in history. found at http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/triumph/tr-gestapo.htm and not by Göring as in the article. Not sure which one is correct

[edit] Picture

Image:Polizeimarke Gestapo.jpg
Randroide 10:04, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hijacked Article

Not sure how to report this, but the article on Gestapo appears to have been hijacked and I'm unsure how to fix it.

It sure is. I don't know how to remove that "The Gestapo were evil men"-line.

This vandalism was reverted fairly quickly. If you can still see it, try refreshing your cache.Boson 13:35, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA Review

This article is being reviewed to examine whether it meets the good article criteria. See WP:GA/R for more information. RHB Talk - Edits 00:13, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Result of the GAR

[edit] Gestapo

result:Delist 4-0

No inline citations, wasn't put on teh GAC page but was passed by RHB Talk - Edits 00:19, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Speedy to GAC page. Plus, the lead is certainly not a summary of this article, no way can it be crammed into what little is there... Homestarmy 00:23, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Delist Lead is lousy, no inline refs, cite needed tags.Rlevse 11:09, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Delist per above. LuciferMorgan 17:47, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Delist per above.Sumoeagle179 16:39, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Delist per above. M3tal H3ad 08:20, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

This is the consensus to delist. Diez2 16:41, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] About the name Gestapo

I believe you will find the story of the origin of the name in the book "Order of the death's head" by Heinz Hohne. I read this book some time ago and in it I believe he says that it originated from a postal worker given the job of making a stamp. There may be a reference in the book. As I am abroad at the moment I can't check this out. Welkinridge 19.10, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Questionable Book

I am not certain that the following book should be listed as a source: "de Villemarest, Pierre, Untouchable - Who protected Bormann & Gestapo Müller after 1945..., Aquilion, 2005, ISBN 1-904997-02-3". It seems to me to be an very dubious book as judging by the title, it implies that Martin Bormann did not died in Berlin in 1945, and was instead protected by someone after the war. Given that it is quite clear that Bormann did in fact died in Berlin in 1945, this book appears to be questionable quality. --A.S. Brown 23:18, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism by users from the MENDOCINO COUNTY OFFICE OF EDUCATION

  • 15:44, 21 May 2007 64.39.127.251
  • 15:40, 21 May 2007 64.39.113.137
  • 15:40, 21 May 2007 64.39.113.120
  • 15:39, 21 May 2007 64.39.127.251
  • 15:39, 21 May 2007 64.39.113.137
  • 15:38, 21 May 2007 64.39.113.120
  • 15:36, 21 May 2007 64.39.113.120
  • 15:33, 21 May 2007 64.39.113.120
  • 15:31, 21 May 2007 64.39.113.120

I corrected it, I hope I found all changes here. --Ccwelt 17:08, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hitler's sex appeal?

In "Keeping Hitler in power":

On one hand, it was next to impossible for them to overthrow Hitler and the party because of his sexual appeal

Surely this is vandalism, but I don't know what it should read or how to revert, so maybe someone more Wikipedia-savvy could revert this. 89.27.19.182 (talk) 03:28, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Tag & Assess 2008

Article reassessed and graded as start class. --dashiellx (talk) 18:01, 6 May 2008 (UTC)