User talk:Gerdbrendel/February 2006

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[edit] Monterey County

being a resident of monterey county, i can assure you that the county seat of monterey county is indeed king city. salinas may be the largest city, and several county offices are located their, but is not the county seat.--Prunetucky 03:21, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

No, its Salinas- see your talk page. Signaturebrendel 02:01, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mean Selling Price

Gerd, we have discussed this previously, according to chart, we have lincoln included in luxury definition and threshold now is 36K not 38 and 40K. Please dont make any changes. If you have doubts, consult on talk page first. Best wishes. Samstayton 22:54, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] please link your ref.

gerd can you please link your ref. at appropriate points in the article. Thanks Samstayton 23:11, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:DSC05180.JPG

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[edit] Mercedes-Benz S-Class picture

Hi, was it really neccesary to delete the S-Class picture. The picture was posted there since before I got here and really was the best fit for the article. It is really hard to get all three S-Class in one good picture. Would you mind if put the picture back in? Thanks. Gerdbrendel 07:24, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it was neccessary to delete them. The images have no information on their copyright status, and seem likely to be copyright violations. --Carnildo 22:05, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Luxury Car

Hi Gerdbrendel: I saw the change you made. I will not contest it at the moment. However, the 29K cut-off will keep changing (increasing) every year because of inflation. But, the percentag rule will always remain static (timeless). Think about it. Also, I chose 36K instead of 38K because the top 10% vehicles by price end at 35,900 $ approx. rounded of to 36K. 38K is close. Anyway, I look forward to collaborations with you Samstayton 03:49, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

View the reponse on your talk page. Thanks. Gerdbrendel 08:34, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] luxury car

Dear Gerd, you made too many changes, why are you so biased between euro and other brands, lexus/cadillac are considered high end in US, may be not in Germany. Unfortunately I had to revert back to older version. Even prestigious mags like Businessweek and forbes consider Lexus as high-end. The LS is compared with S-class 500 and BMW 750i. Most LS and LX are sold over 60K at or near MSRP. Also, in US we dont discriminate between brands. Not 29K limit for Mercedes and 36K for GMC Yukon. There is "one standard" for everyone. "One threshold" for everyone, "one law" for everyone, no discrimination. Thank you!

I'm not bias in favor of Euro-brands, I drive a Town Car.

Hi Gerd:

I know KBB very well. I also agree that may be some so called luxury brands can have a threshold of 29K as you have stated. But I do not understand where did you get the figure of 36 or 38K for non-luxury brands. Can you refer to those sources which clearly say that 38K is the starting threshold for non-luxury brands. If you can list those reference then you can edit these definitions and I wont meddle with them anymore.

But I would like to discuss this problem of lexus "not a high end brand". Can you point out those sources? Almost every magazine of repute such as C&D, R&T, edmunds, businessweek, forbes compare lexus LS with mercedes S500. If lexus LS is not "true high-end" then mercedes S500 is also not high end. Although I am not accusing you of racism, it would begin to smell like that if you cannot even "concur" with what the aforementioned sources regularly do.

[edit] Important WikiProject Automobiles Discussion

Hello! As a Wikipedia:WikiProject Automobiles member, I just thought you might want to input your opinions on an important discussion we're currently having about whether articles regarding similar vehicles should be merged into one or split by brand. If you would like to comment or read further, please see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Automobiles#Articles of Similar Vehicles. Thank you in advance for your thoughts and feedback. Airline 23:40, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Dear Gerd, your criteria is basically okay. This article doesnt need another guideline. Its just that you are holding the guideline a little too tightly. Plus or minus $2,000 for a $60,000 approx. vehicle and above should not make you so inflexible. Samstayton 01:58, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Change heading to Luxury Vehicle

Luxury Vehicle heading would be less narrow compared to "luxury Car", then we will be able to include some SUV (important) material too. Having separate "luxury SUV" section is another alternative, but ultimately just like the european union :-)) we should become broader rather than narrower, so I favor a combined section on "Luxury Vehicles" to include both Luxury cars and SUVs and even wagons line E-class AMG wagon. Samstayton 02:02, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Crossover : 30-40K Mid-Luxury SUV: 40-60 K High-End: 60-100K. Lets keep it similar to Car section and not have different price range. Samstayton 02:46, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

You are contradicting yourself. In past discussions you were lance fighting :-)) with me over yukon. Besides you were also questioning over sales and so on and now you have done a sharp about turn and marching on the SUV section with a different set of rules. Lets "HARMONIZE" car and SUV sections with similar rules, otherwise we have to reverse Car section too. Which way you prefer? The right way of course. Samstayton 02:53, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Denali or Senali, GMC is not Luxo brand. Thats the point. Also, yes I agree then we should classify as Mid-level not Mid-size. If GMC is luxo brand than Chevy is also a luxo brand. I will than like to include chevy and may be even Ford. Samstayton 03:02, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia is an international website. We should photos from Japanese and Italians too. I suggest replacing DTS with Acura RL or Infiniti M45. and adding quattroporte in Ultra-high end.

Samstayton 03:53, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lexus LS

You have changed a lot of information in Lexus LS and other websites too. Your changes reflect several agendas. is it that you want to show Lexus in Poor light. You are comparing Infiniti Q wih LS because its "Japanese", this is very similar to a concept we call as "racial profiling" in US. Its considered very bad. Also FYI, what is your problem with Lexus LS being called "one of the most well engineered", I would like to know. Is a car which is one of the most refined, quiet, completely trouble free, better in so many aspects than its competitors not well engineered.

Just because some german cars "may be" slightly better in handling, does it mean they have overall superiority. When mercedes S-class was on top in reliability in consumer's eyes it was called "engineered like no other car", now its levels are like Junk, go read Consumers Reports and it will be very revealing to you. But when Lexus meets and exceeds those standards by a WIDE margin, it suddenly becomes "mere" reliability.

This clearly shows you have double standards, one for europeans, particularly germans and another for East. I do not want to lance-fight but I keep watching this subtle attempt to potray everything eastern as "Second Class".

Some day, I worry we might be labeled by Easterners as merely a Christian Club. Do you want to keep Wikipedia International or not? What is your answer?

Samstayton 01:32, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

I have no such intend. It is not my intention to make Lexus look bad and am certainly not attempting to make "everything" eastern look "Second Class." FYI: the S-Class isn't junk and the phrase "most well engineered" is gramatically wrong. Thanks for understanding. Signaturebrendel 23:31, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

I also have detailed comments on your german-US relations (which is a good first attempt), but I want to find out your intentions on automotive stubs first. Samstayton 01:32, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Request for edit summary

Hi. I am a bot, and I am writing to you with a request. I would like to ask you, if possible, to use edit summaries a bit more often when you contribute. The reason an edit summary is important is because it allows your fellow contributors to understand what you changed; you can think of it as the "Subject:" line in an email. For your information, your current edit summary usage is 25% for major edits and 69% for minor edits. (Based on the last 150 major and 16 minor edits outside the Wikipedia, User, Image, and all Talk namespaces.)

This is just a suggestion, and I hope that I did not appear inpolite. You do not need to reply to this message, but if you would like to give me feedback, you can do so at the feedback page. Thank you, and happy edits, Mathbot 05:12, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the reminder. I'll start paying more attention to giving my edits a summary desrciption. Signaturebrendel 06:49, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Changes to Luxury Vehicles

I have made some very careful changes to luxury vehicles. You can compare them. Chrysler, GMC are not semi-luxury brands. Rover is DEAD. Acura has been transferred to Near Luxury Brands and so is Lincoln. I have reduced the amount from 40K to 38K, since I wanted to include Audi and Infiniti as mainstream luxury brands since thats how they are perceived.

I am confident it looks much better now with the chart. Any questions, please message me. Samstayton 08:35, 23 February 2006 (UTC)


Gerd you have to move ahead with the time. You cannot have decades old views. Times are changing. We must change wth time. The mean selling price is the way to go. We cannot select on some random whim what is luxury and what is not.

When you argued against some brands like GMC Yukon not being luxury I thought deeply about it and ultimately realized that its not the price bu the mean selling price of the entire vehicle line that should be taken into account.

There has to be some logic. THE MSP provides that foundation. Wikipedia is not about your personal preferences or just a review paper based on some websites. It is to present factual and sound information. If after all this explaination you still want to engage in edit war. Thats fine with me. Samstayton 06:23, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

I offer a truce. If you provide me with european sales data and MSP (not MSRP) I will revise the chart and write in the footnote "based on US and European data", but until then we have to wait.

[edit] Lincoln

I can revise the chart to include Lincoln if thats your only sore point. Do you accept? Samstayton 06:45, 24 February 2006 (UTC) Okay I got some data and I am collecting more. I have changed figure legend to reflect that data is for US only. Also, in English its deushland, and Deutschland both. Besides we should simplify some german long words. In fact I would say we should call it Doshland. Thats just eight alphabets. What do you say? We can simplify some english words too :-))) Samstayton 07:41, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Lexus LS:

S-class is the closest competitor. We can add one more such as BMW 7-series. Q45 is not the closest competitor. Best Samstayton 09:59, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Too Biased

It seems like our article is still too biased. people like elijahmeeks are rebelious. I have reverted back that accused weasel stuff. These asian rebels want to it to be more balanced. I found one thing. You have included vastly more caucasian brand pictures than eastern brands. Also, you have given disproportionately more western examples Like NavigatorL and all that but very few Eastern brands. Are you being fair? Are you? Samstayton 07:56, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Gerd if you dont fix the bias by this weekend. I will have to move in with my Panzers and V2. Samstayton 07:59, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

I am not accusing you. I dont think you are biased, but I think others will say that the article is. I am simply concerned that its not fair. 2D + 2 US + 2I = 6 western. 2J = 2 Eastern. Thats not fair.

In hollywood we always have balanced will smith/ tommy lee "men in Black".

Also Lincoln employees are employees, the brand is not African. Got it? So lets make it 2W + 2E in each category. If you dont agree then propose another solution. Samstayton 08:19, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

The rule isn't written. It's an unwritten rule to create unity among all car articles. We have disussed this issue before on Wiki auto project, but never came to a conclusion. I'm just trying to create a general layout for all cas articles. That's why I recetnly revamped the layout of the LS article with the new generation tables and sections. Unifying auto articles has long been a goal of the auti wiki prjoect. So, I just wanted the LS to have three competitors like the others in order to create unity. I understand th Aluninium agrument (and that Jag and Lincoln share parts) but isn't a competitor, someone who steals your customers? Lexus LS buyers shop around before they buy and Audi A8 id one of their stops. If you really, really think the LS has only has two competitors then that's going to be fine with me, but just think about what I wrote above. Thanks. FYI: the size for infobox pics really is 250px, if you see one that's not, tell me so I can change that article. Signaturebrendel 10:38, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

I think we have to be flexible. Just because Gerd has 2 kids does not mean Samuel Stayton is also going to have 2 kids. Just because Gerd has two competitors for job opening does not mean Sam also has two. Just because Gerd drinks a gallon of milk a day does not mean Sam has to drink same amount. We have to look case by case. CASE-by-CASE. Also why not have variety with pic sizes. Why hammer everything into same size and shape. Is "monotony" really your goal?? Best Samstayton 10:46, 25 February 2006 (UTC)