Talk:German Academy of Sciences Leopoldina

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was No consensus to move. --Philip Baird Shearer (talk) 11:00, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

I would suggest to move this page to the name Leopoldina. In 2007, the German government has decided to grant the Leopoldina the rights of a National Academy of Sciences of Germany and I think it would be better to use the lemma "Leopoldina" for the academy and place a link at the top of the page to the Brasilian city. Axt (talk) 18:56, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

• German Academy of Sciences Leopoldina → Leopoldina —Axt (talk) 19:00, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps there should be a discussion of pros and cons, before people say "oppose" or "support". Actually, why don't I start. Leopoldina is to be preferred because:

• it is used in the French and German Wikipedia too, especially the German article may give a hint as to what Leopoldina refers to
• Leopoldina is the short version of the full name
• it is also the name it is commonly referred to in the German press, e.g. here: Tagesspiegel
• the term Leopoldina is included in both the old name of the institution, "Akedemie der Naturforscher Leopoldina", as well as the new name, "Deutsche Akademie der Wissenschaften Leopoldina", which should both be mentioned in the article intro anyway.
• a redirect from Academia Naturae Curiosorum, German Academy of Natural Scientists Leopoldina, Deutsche Akademie der Naturforscher Leopoldina, German Academy of Sciences 'Leopoldina', Carolinisch-Leopoldinische Akademie der Naturforscher or any other name that might come up in the future to Leopoldina is clearly better than any of those hideously long names and makes sure the page is found under whatever name you search for
• what if they had named this thing 893 German Academy of Sciences Leopoldina: 893 Leopoldina. that would sound kind of long and unnecessary too woulnd't it?

Axt (talk) 22:00, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

To respond to your points:

1. The name Leopoldina can be used to refer to the academy, but it also has many other meanings. Performing a Google News Archive 2007 search for English-language occurrences of this name results in ~200 hits, most of which are for the Brazilian energy company Cataguazes-Leopoldina. Leaving these out, we have ~20 hits which are for neighborhoods called Vila Leopoldina in São Paulo, ~11 for royalty named Leopoldina, most of which are for Maria Leopoldina of Austria, ~13 for this academy, and ~60 for other miscellaneous usages, including the city in Minas Gerais, a suburb of Rio de Janeiro, and the hospital in Schweinfurt. So, there is no real majority for the subject of this article. Also, even in the hits for the academy, the word Leopoldina generally appears only as part of a longer name (e.g., German Academy of Sciences, Leopoldina, or something of this sort.) Leopoldina by itself only appears a couple of times.
2. Redirects can be created to the article from alternate names regardless of the name the article is under. This has no bearing on what the article should be named.
3. The name of the asteroid is also not relevant.

Spacepotato (talk) 23:57, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

This may not be relevant either, but in the German press it is frequently just called Leopoldina. The small number of google hits is probably because it has just been declared the national academy of Germany some months ago and the process is still on-going and not completed. Of course there will be more hits for the British Royal Society, because it had its function for much longer. Give it some time and many more google hits will appear, probably outnumbering the others for Brazilian cities and Austrian Royalty exponentially. Axt (talk) 08:04, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree with your comment on the German press. When I do the 2007 Google News Archive search in German instead of English, I get ~150 hits, the overwhelming majority of which are the academy (there are a few for the hospital and miscellaneous other usages), and the academy is often just called Leopoldina, although Deutsche Akademie der Naturforscher Leopoldina is also popular. Still, as this is en.wikipedia, I think we have to be guided by English-language usage. If the world press falls in love with the new Leopoldina, we can always move it later. Spacepotato (talk) 23:45, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I'm glad you checked google news Germany and agree with me there. I think there just aren't many hits on the English google news, because this academy has only been granted national status plus widened its scope from natural sciences to all sciences (including humanities etc.) in November 2007. Before that it was probably much less known even in Germany, let alone abroad. This might explain the lack of news articles about it that you mentioned above. Give it a year or two and there will be more, it's just a question of do we really want to wait that long. Axt (talk) 10:33, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

PS: I don't insist on changing the name, I just think it's easier to use the short version just like they do (except for headings) on their webpage themselves. My ~former university is called Ernst Moritz Arndt University of Greifswald, but there too no-one really calls it by its full name in real life unless it's an official letterhead or something. Axt (talk) 10:37, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Vote

Oppose. Not its full name. Leopoldina by itself is no more likely to refer to this society than anything else. Spacepotato (talk) 21:19, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Support. doesn't need to be the full name, but the one that is in frequent use and easy. Axt (talk) 10:49, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus, as shown at Talk:Leopoldina#Requested nove

German Academy of Sciences Leopoldina → Leopoldina — See Talk:Leopoldina for discussion —Axt (talk) 19:31, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

===Survey===

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

• support --- for my reasons to support, please visit Talk:Leopoldina -- Axt (talk) 19:33, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Any additional comments:

This issue is being discussed at Talk:Leopoldina. There is no reason to have a separate discussion here. Spacepotato (talk) 19:40, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, I agree with you. Someone has notified me on my talkpage that my proposal is "incomplete" -- so I thought this might be the necessary thing to do. But I agree with you, we need only one place to discuss this and that is Talk:Leopoldina -- Axt (talk) 19:46, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.