Template talk:GeoGroupTemplate/Archive 1

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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

GeoGroupTemplate/Archive 1 is part of WikiProject Microformats, which encourages the deployment of microformats in Wikipedia, and documents them in the article space. If you would like to participate, visit the project page.

New link target

User:Paradisal ("Para") recently changed the target of the first link in this template, from Brian Suda's site, to one which Para apparently hosts himself. The latter provides KML files with the "name" property of "Geodata from Wikipedia"; whereas Brian's site uses the page title, for example "List of volcanoes in the United States of America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia". The loss of such useful data should be rectified, or the original link restored.

I'm also waiting for Para to answer my question about what exactly it is, that his service parses. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 11:16, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Name changed to page title. I have already answered[1][2] your parsing question that the service parses coordinates from Wikipedia articles. Brian's script seems to rely on microformats only and is incapable of converting other coordinates, unlike my tool. Feel free to notify me if you notice missing information with some article. --Para 20:10, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

I asked you to be explicit about how you were deriving the coordinates. You have, so far, avoided answering that question. Please do so now. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 21:03, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

It's a work in progress and the implementation can change at any time, which is why explaining the internals is not necessary or even relevant. The purpose of the tool is to parse any Wikipedia coordinates entered with community approved templates and generate a KML out of them. It is designed for Wikipedia use only, and covers more cases than the other more general use tool. That's as explicit as you'll get. If you notice missing information somewhere, feel free to post an improvement request for consideration. --Para 08:19, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

I note that you're refusing to give a direct answer to my question. I wonder why that is. Is there something you're trying to hide? What is you definition of "community approved templates", and what other templates are you excluding? Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 16:42, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Ownership of multi-coordinates parsing service

It seems that Para is refusing to answer my questions. I wonder why. Note that by changing this template from its original purpose, of parsing hCard and geo microformats, using Brian Suda's open-source-code service, and which works with any Wiki-project page (including other-language Wikipedias, WikiCommons, and so on; and of course other websites) to parsing only Wikipedia coordinates templates, he has made it use a service which he owns, and which is not, apparently open. It does not work with calls from other Wiki-foundation sites, only Wikipedia-EN. It also gives him an effective, personal veto over which coordinates templates he deems acceptable.

Note also that the template, as currently configured to use Paras's service, does not detect the coordinates in the Geo microformat on our Geo microformat page. Those coordinates were recognised by the template as set up, using Suda's service.

Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 12:59, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

The purpose of external links on Wikipedia is to provide more or better information about the topics covered in articles. The currently linked tool built for Wikipedia use fulfills that purpose much better than the old one that parses microformats only, by parsing all coordinates on the English Wikipedia entered with a community approved method. The obscure HTML markup on Geo (microformat) has not been approved by the Wikipedia community as a data entry method, and is therefore not parsed. When the English Wikipedia implements exemplary functionality for coordinate annotation that others can follow, I will add support for Wikipedias in other languages. I doubt there is enough interest from other projects, so they can use any other tools they see fit. Again, if you notice missing information somewhere in the result of the KML export, feel free to drop me a note. --Para 13:37, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

You're still equivocating, and being disingenuous if not dishonest. You have yet to make clear how text labels for coordinates are derived (with microformats, that's explicitly clear). All coordinates on Wikipedia should use microformats, as soon as conversion to {{coord}} (which you currently oppose; just as you opposed this template) is completed. Microformat markup does have community support. Both de facto, and expressly. Crippling this template to make your flawed proposal to alter {{coord}} seem necessary is underhand, and harms the project. Coordinates from other Wiki projects, which already use microformats, can already be parsed by Suda's service, but not yours. Some improvement; you've just proved my point about your personal veto. I have already given an example of a page parsed by the Suda service, but not yours. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 13:48, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Andy alias Pigsonthewing: I wonder about the energy you are putting into your personal vendetta with Para. Why not put these efforts in rethinking what you are doing with kml template and microformats? Indeed, microformats get more and more interest, but HTML markup like microformats is definitely not Wiki style (it still can be and is hidden part of a template anyway)! So please answer yourself what is problematic about your proposed usage of microformats and kml in Wikipedia. -- Geonick 23:39, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Bug

As noted on WP:TR#Bug?, this template currently fails to work on pages with brackets (parentheses) in page names; e.g. Splashdown (spacecraft landing); possibly caused by Para in this edit. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 11:07, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Hmm. It was working when I added the KML template was added to the page, whatever date that was. I'm not bothering to check, as if it's broken now that's what is important. (SEWilco 04:32, 13 August 2007 (UTC))

Someone has fixed it. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 11:10, 13 August 2007 (UTC)