Talk:George W. Bush/Archive 17.3

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

See:

George W. Bush

Talk:George W. Bush/Archive 17

Talk:George W. Bush/Archive 17.2

Talk:George W. Bush/Archive 17.4

Drunk / Drugs / etc

It seems that every time I return to check this out, someone has edited out my completely factual info about his past as a drunk and a drug user. Also, it seems that just about every somewhat unfavorable fact about George W. Bush is removed as well, such as the cheerleader thing, etc.

Most recent example: someone edited stuff out and put "this was written by angry democrats." True I am a democrat, but I don't stoop to the level of vandalism on an educational resource, as many republicans tend to do on John F. Kerry's page.

What is there that I can do to keep people from editing out my facts? Should I leave comments with sources or what? I mean... a video of him taking back shots at a party in 1992 would seem to be enough, right?

I believe these facts and accusations of alcohol and drug use are very important and educational. They should not be left out because some republican doesn't seem to like it. If John F. Kerry had been arrested for DUI, I would want that on his page too.

I agree that this article seems to have been seriously messed up, although I don't agree with all your points.

A whole paragraph of completely uncontroversial information, such as his birthplace and parents' names, was deleted. I've restored it.
Also deleted were two pictures, one of Bush with his family and one of Bush in his National Guard uniform. I've restored the pics.
The addition of the statement that Bush signed up in the Guard "Specifically asking to not be sent to Vietnam" wasn't sourced. I've deleted it unless someone can provide substantiation.
There was unacceptable POVing in both directions. The NPOV approach is to report controversial points without taking sides and without wording that's biased one way or the other.
- The language about Bush's drinking was full of "supposedly" and "claim" for his side of it, and said that the opposite view is "well documented". I understand the temptation to take sides -- the people editing the Killian documents article just aren't satisfied with listing all the evidence, they too have to make sure that the article echoes their view of the weight of the evidence. It's wrong when Bush partisans do it there, and wrong when Bush detractors do it here. That Bush isn't drinking any more should certainly be presented as something he says, not as an undisputed fact, but we can make clear that it's his statement without going out of our way with the "supposedly" stuff to cast doubt on it. I've tried to clean up these passages.
- The Hatfield allegations should be reported as allegations, not suppressed and not reported as fact, and with the responses also reported. I've restored the first paragraph about Hatfield; the text of the article when I looked at it just now quoted Bush's side of the story ("He also called Hatfield's book 'totally ridiculous'.") without naming the book or summarizing its content. At some point, however, the paragraph about Hatfield's book picked up a statement to the effect that the record of Bush's cocaine arrest was in fact expunged. That's Hatfield's allegation, not an established fact.
One point I still have doubts about is this insert about the space exploration initiative: "in January of 2005 the White House released a new Space Transportation Policy fact sheet which confirms the plan is still on track." My preliminary impression is that that's a POV overstatement and should be reworded. I've left it alone for now, but I think it needs attention. JamesMLane 10:58, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Maybe somebody could update the article as to how Bush's previously announced War on Steroid Abuse is coming along. Grin grin. Gzuckier 21:15, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The source for Bush asking not to be sent to nam is all over the place. a google search found this ...which you may agree is a valid source (his own form). Andsat 04:40, 19 Jan 2005 (EST)

Oh come on here, I see Kerry's signature on his form, but I don't see Bush's on the part that is supposed to be from his form.--MONGO 12:04, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I agree that the allegations should be mentioned although not given undue weight. If someone has a problem with the weight and context given at present, perhaps the thing to do is to edit to add more context and adjust weight, rather than try to remove all mention of the allegations. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 16:42, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Inuendo and slander

When I came to this page for the first time, it was after I had utilized another article for reference and dechiphered an obvious non NPOV. This POV was left leaning and I as surprised as I have used Wiki for some time now. So on a hunch, I queried George Bush and was appalled! The rampant slander was so apparent, I thought it was written by some left wing extremists and decided to start editing. I haven't decided as to whether I will continue to edit this page, becuase I have lost all faith that the major contributors to this article are to the extreme left. I find it funny, reading through others bios how young, perhaps not American citizens, and how liberal in attitude are those that I am arguing with here. I mentioned to one, that since he lived in Germany, perhaps I could utilize the same techniques employed by the likes of him and quote or state as fact that a book had been written by unreliable sources that Adolph Hitler wasn't such a bad guy and he had little to do with the murder of millions. These books do exist, in published form, and they are AN OPINION, yet we know that the opposite is true and therefore in good taste, we exclude them from any discussion here in Wiki. In a nutshell, this article utilizes POV and that POV is anti bush. Anyone that thinks that this rubbish of an article is NPOV is blind. I have been warned and etc. and I really don't care. So in an effort to show what ridiculous is, I created my user page and made it as preposterous as possible. MONGO--MONGO 11:32, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I guess it shows how wide the gulf between some editors can be that I, a European, at first took your reference to "how liberal in attitude are those that I am arguing with here" as a compliment. Indeed in British English this sentence is impossible to take as anything other than a compliment as far as I am aware.

That aside, I notice that the Adolf Hitler page does indeed give room to some fringe speculation: the theory that Hitler had some Jewish ancestry. The presentation of the theory (which is well known enough I think that many people reading this will have heard it) does not amount to an endorsement. Nor does the presentation of the allegations of Hatfield and Salon magazine's speculations with respect to the drug testing program amount to an endorsement of those positions. They shoud be mentioned as opinions, with such factual basis as might exist to support or refute them., because they are common opinions held by educated, intelligent people about Bush. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 12:38, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps you forget the words of Churchill when he spoke of political leanings....it goes somewhat like> a man under thirty who is not a liberal has no heart, but a man over thirty who is not a conservative has no brain. Being liberal is a good thing...being blindly so is not. I hope you're no older than 29.

Liberal has an entirely different meaning in Europe. Don't confuse them with US democrats, hippies or guerillas ;)

The major contributors to this article are brainless or lacking in enough of a brain to see that the entire article is speculative and that I am convinced that the insertion of the Salon story and the book by Hatfield are unworthy of mention in that they are opinion, inuendo and without the ability to stand up in a court of law. I don't care if because they were written then they should be mentioned. I care about quantifiable truths that would be accepted as facts and be fact based. Lets get the inuendo of Hitler having Jewish ancestry out of that article too and then, just maybe, this stuff will start to become NPOV. --MONGO 13:39, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Churchill himself switched from Conservative to Liberal and back again at key points in his career. He had no problems with the term "liberal". I have not yet reached the age at which Churchill ceased representing the Liberal party in Parliament.

Now on the section that you have removed, it reports some claims that were made in Salon and were widely reported during the election campaign. Why then did you remove it? --Tony Sidaway|Talk 14:29, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Salon.com's February, 2004 report

MONGO removed this:

In February, 2004, Salon claimed that Bush's cessation of flying in the spring of 1972 and his subsequently refusal to take a physical exam came at the same time the Air Force announced its Medical Service Drug Abuse Testing Program, which, Salon said, meant random drug testing for pilots, including Guardsmen.

I believe it's adequately referenced--if preferred I can include a complete citation for the precise article, or even quote a relevant paragraph. Is there anything else you think should be provided to satisfy your problems with this, Mongo?

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/02/06/drugs/index_np.html

See article referenced above --Tony Sidaway|Talk 13:12, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)

"Gentleman" Cs

I see alot of detractors trying to make hay about George W. Bush's "Gentleman" Cs he received in Yale. I'd like to amend this section to at least consider another POV regarding his performance in Yale. Here is a conservative (some say ultra-conservative) gentleman attending a liberal institution. The instructors are stubbornly Liberal in their views. A student who tries to argue their conservative beliefs would be labeled wrong and be given low grades. I am not saying that Bush is a genius. But, I am saying that he was disenfranchised (to use the term du jour) and his grades were depressed because of this conflict. He did go on and do much better when getting his MBA. Because Yale is a Liberal institution, I also wouldn't give much credence to the notion that Yale let Bush skate through. First Lensman 15:40, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)

If you have a public source for someone making this point about Bush's Cs, please feel free to add it. But if you just thought of this and there is no external source then it may be "original research", not encyclopedic. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 15:58, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Original research? Wishful thinking more like it. I second the call for external sources. -- Nils 12:28, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Now that I got you dangling on the hook, check out the New York TImes article titled "[Ally of an Older Generation Amid the Tumult of the 60's]. As you can guess, it is an unflattering article about the President's Yale years. But three items can illuminate some of the discussion here. The first is the quote "Mr. Bush was pressed during his years at Yale, 1964 to 1968, to take sides in the great battles then unfolding over politics, civil rights, drugs and music. Mostly he was a noncombatant in those upheavals, but when forced to choose, he ultimately retreated to the values and ideals established by his parents' generation, and to their accepted methods of rebelling." My interpretation of this is that he remained conservative in his views. This would not have been looked upon favorably by the faculty or his fellow classmates in Yale. The second relates to the alleged drug usage mentioned in another section, that "For all the buffeting that late-night television has given Mr. Bush over questions of drug use, he was in most respects a very conventional young man, and classmates say they do not recall him ever using marijuana or other illegal drugs." This from the New York Times??? If there were any evidence that President Bush used drugs, the New York Times would have plastered it all over the place. Finally, the article addresses President Bush's intelligence. While going through some anecdotes about his grades, the most telling quote is that: "This guy is very smart," said Lanny J. Davis, a former special counsel to President Clinton and a supporter of Al Gore, as well as a fraternity brother of Mr. Bush at Yale. "This notion of lightness is totally missing the point. There are many smart people, intellectually smart as well as street smart, who don't have the energy or motivation at times to act smart, but that doesn't mean they're not smart. There are times when George coasted through Yale courses or through exams or seemed overly facetious. But don't mistake that for not being intellectually acute." The article then reaffirms my point by stating, "yet ever since he showed up at Yale as a freshman in 1964, Mr. Bush has resolutely cultivated an anti-intellectualism and chafed at what he describes as the arrogance of liberal intellectual elitists." Because this is a New York Times article, I say that the Yale establishment chafed at Bush's attitudes as much as Bush chafed at them. The article also states that "Mr. Bush's tension with what he sees as an arrogant Eastern elite, and his perception of himself as outside it, seem to have arisen initially from the clash of generations that occurred while he was at Yale." Again, I state that the tension went both ways, causing Bush to form an "...association with a community of gifted people with whom Mr. Bush would form lifelong friendships -- and Mr. Bush's strategy at Yale was clearly to build great friendships, more than a great transcript. It was also a perfectly reasonable strategy, for one could argue that Yale graduates in the 1960's got further on the networks they made than on the grades they earned." Anyway, does this suffice as a source? First Lensman 14:47, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Well you haven't found a source for your main thesis, indeed the article seems to be saying that Bush was essentially apolitical and that he personally feels that he may have suffered some prejudice because he was a Texan. But you have an excellent source for the fact that Bush isn't thought to be dim by some of his former classmates and indeed demonstrated a keen social intelligence at his fraternity house. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 15:19, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Sometimes you have to read between the lines to extract cause and effect information. I think I have done so here. While the article stated that the prejudice he suffered was because he was a Texan, I have cited other statements in the article that shows the prejudice was because he was Conservative in his views. First Lensman 15:40, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Well you're drawing an inference and you're entitled to do so. I don't see anything in the article or in the sections that you have cited from it that demonstrate that the prejudice, if it existed, was because he was conservative--indeed as I have pointed out Bush himself thought that any prejudice that might have existed might have been regional. That is, those eastern intellectuals thought a guy with his Texan background and accent was dumb and probably only got in because the college had a regional quota for admissions.

The upshot of this is that if you can find someone notable drawing the inference that you draw (in the media) then you can cite that. Otherwise it would be original research. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 15:50, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I would consider the Salon article to be original research as well. I read through it and found not one credible source mentioned. I failed to find anyone notable in that article yet you portray it to be creditable.--MONGO 13:27, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Vandalism

Alright, stop it. I'm an ultra-liberal, Kucinich-supporting, Democrat, and yes, it is very tempting to vandalize this page, esp. today. I even wrote up a vandalized edit making reference to his last name. But actually posting it is only a detriment to the Democratic Party. It makes us seem immature and juvenile. Democrats, stop it.

Would someone please protect this page for twenty-four hows or something?

You voted for Kucinich? Seems like you and I made a good choice at least. I agree on the lock though, we could be spending our time doing much more productive things. :)

That amount of vanderlism recived by this article in the last 24 hours doesn't seem hugley exceptionalGeni 03:07, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The "Dry Drunk" nonsense

This article is a partisan opinion NOT based on fact and NOT based on a physical or mental examination. I've left in all the stuff that the President has admitted to, the "reckless youth", the "DUI", the cessation of drinking at 40, because they are admitted to by the president himself, or substantiated by documentation. The article does not demonstrate a NPOV. Items should be put up in the discussion area first so that the information can be vetted by the users. (See "Gentleman's Cs section above"). Then, there will be some massaging of the information that would eventually wind up in the article. Just posting information directly into the article is just not productive. First Lensman 23:54, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)

"This article is a partisan opinion NOT based on fact and NOT based on a physical or mental examination." I assume that, by "this article", you mean the Wormer article, not the Wikipedia article. You're completely correct about Wormer's opinion concerning Bush. Of course, exactly the same could be said about Bush's opinion concerning Saddam (he had WMD's, he was involved in 9/11, etc.). Should we censor out Bush's pretexts for launching aggressive war just because they've largely been exposed to be pretexts? No. We report these opinions and attribute them. To say that Saddam had WMD's is opinion. To say that Bush claimed he did, however, is an undeniable fact. A point that that people often miss is that reporting and attributing a POV is perfectly consistent with NPOV. JamesMLane 00:59, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)

It wasn't Bush's opinion concerning WMD. He was informed that they did have WMD by the United Nations, NATO, The members of the European Union, and the U.S. Intelligence Services. First Lensman 01:20, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Exactly. Don't blame Bush for his faulty intelligence. For what it's worth, I agree with James - decribing POV opinion is not POV. To understand and contextualize an issue, POV's must be explored, in an NPOV way. -- RyanFreisling @ 19:44, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)

James, I think if Wormer based her claims on observations similar to those a medical professional might make, people might not have such a problem with the paragraph. But she's claiming that Bush has a behavioral disorder because his rhetoric is not to her liking. She cites "regime change", a phrase that predates his presidency, as an example of his "extreme language." A remark from one speech, not repeated to my knowledge, indicates an "obsession" with revenge. She cites a sentence, "We must be prepared to stop rogue states and their terrorist clients..." that would sound absurd if replaced with its negation "We need not be prepared..." So her conclusions end up looking shaky and random to someone who doesn't share her political bias, not much more credible than the report of the Lovenstein Institute. We could put a paragraph here for every allegation on Bush family conspiracy theory, but we don't. If Wormer's article has a place here, I think it's the External links section. Gazpacho 09:01, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)

You're deluding yourself. We have been involved in an aggressive war with Iraq since 1991. Repeatedly we bombed Iraq because of their consistent violations of the cease fire agreement. We maintained at tremendous cost in tax dollars a no fly zone and imposed sanctions which were detrimental to everyone because we were forced by agreements with our partners to not invade Iraq, overthrow their government and establish a democracy. Bush asserted that there were WMD because the evidence supported it, and it is therefore not a POV. Regardless, the fact that none have been found doesn't mean that they don't or didn't exist. The major contributors to this article seem to fail to understand that and blame Bush for making a decision based on the evidence. --MONGO 10:26, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Mongo, I don't think we need to turn every content dispute (or any content dispute) into an open argument about Iraq. Gazpacho

Most of my argument has been about content, this is my first about Iraq...what are you refering to?--MONGO 12:39, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)

For older discussion, see: /Archive 1, /Archive 2, /Archive 3, /Archive 4, /Archive 5, /Archive 6, /Archive 7, /Archive 8, /Archive 9, /Archive 10, /Archive 11, /Archive 12, /Archive 13, /Archive 14, /Archive 15, /Archive 16

2005 Inaugural and Foreign Policy

I added some information about Bush's inaugural address. Please check it out --Ben 20:18, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Reverted after three weeks, as it was a shameless and fraudulent mangling of Bush's words. Gazpacho 06:58, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

NPOV?

How can something be considered NPOV if it sounds like a press release from Karl Rove himself? Anything that doesn't pass muster with the Wikihawks who watch this article 24/7 disappears almost instantly.

Thats a good term, wikihawks, I like that. What specifically do you see as a problem. I would prefer a shorter intro, i.e. moving the biographical information from the intro to the biography section. Mir 07:02, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)

In addition to having an obvious left-wing slant, this article is way too long. Can we get rid of the irrelevant anti-Bush commentry and actually talk about his presidency? - Jan 16, 2005

Consistant economic reference points

If you are going to talk about tax revenues as a percent of GDP (which is fine) then you also need to show the deficit as a percent of GDP because the current deficit is nowhere near a record by that measure.

Jeb reference

I don't think it is the proper scholar way to refer to a person by his nickname alone in an enciclopedic entry. I'd suggest "John Ellis (aka. Jeb)".

I don't think he even calls himself John. Almost everything I have seen from the Governor's office either referrers to him as Governor Bush or Jeb. Heck I didn't even know his middle name until you posted it. PPGMD

Missing a related article

The google bomb of George Bush for Miserable Failure is not listed. It is well documented and already has an article on wikipedia. Miserable_failure. I think it should be listed under related articles, with some mention of it in section 6 Public perception and assessments.

I'm not sure that's going to fly with everyone. Being the president of the U.S. means a lot comes up with your name on it, and I don't think we should link to every single thing, especially a subject as peripheral as what you're proposing. --kizzle 10:02, Nov 17, 2004 (UTC)

I hate bush...

Unprotect page after seven days

It's been seven days since my proposal to protect this page. I didn't think the protection would actually last that long. :) Now, shall we unprotect the page, or do you want it to remain protected indefinitely? --Modemac 17:10, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Why don't you add a section titled "controversy" where such ideas as to whether or not Bush lied to the American public to start the Iraq war, etc can be analyzed? Exam his words and his deeds. Was he mislead by the CIA? --Gilgameshfuel 10:29, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Well, this page wasn't protected because of controversial material; it was protected because of stupid vandalism -- ranging in the hundreds of edits per day. --Modemac 11:44, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

So there lies the truth of this whole thing, wikipedia is not a democracy any longer. Silence anyone that wants to voice their distrust of king george, it's a damn shame --Gilgameshfuel 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Is there some way to protect the pages against anonymous users with IP addresses only? Otherwise I would support to create a special page "Masturbation arena for anti-Bush bigots" where the critics could display their skills. ;-) --Lumidek 00:59, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I know you're joking, but I rather dislike seeing "anti-Bush bigot", as it seems to imply being anti-Bush is a form of bigotry rather than sanity ;-) Sanity is no excuse for vandalism though.Wolfman 01:08, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Nope, Wolfman ;-), your analysis is paranoic. The statement meant that the page would be for those bigots that happen to be anti-Bush, but it does not imply that all anti-Bush people must necessarily be bigots. :-) --Lumidek 02:13, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Another factual error

George W. Bush's predessor was William Jefferson Clinton, 'Bill' Clinton is a nickname. Clinton's full legal name should be used. Revmachine21 03:07, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Wikipedia policy is to use the name by which a person is most commonly known. That's why Clinton's article is at Bill Clinton. In fact, if you look at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names), putting Clinton's article there instead of at [[William Jefferson Clinton]] is one of the examples given. JamesMLane 04:43, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Information about the individual elections does not belong in the intro. What does it matter if the popular vote margin was 3%? These trivial details are out of scope. Very Verily 02:09, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

An argument for including that information in the page is this (the elections) is a recent and significant event. As time passes it would be more appropriate to remove it. Mir 03:24, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Does this apply to the 2000 elections? Anyway, the popular vote is just trivia; it's of no legal significance and questionable significance of any kind. Very Verily 06:09, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Is there a policy for what goes into the introduction? I personally would suggest keeping it as short as possible because while there is a lot of significant information about his presidency, not all of it can go into the intro (for example starting a war is just as significant as election results). The 2000 elections results are significant because it was one of the few times the president came into power with less votes than his opponent, but again I dont know if this belongs in the intro. While the popular vote has no legal significance, it better shows how much support the president hads. However saying 286 to 252 instead of 3% would also be appropriate. Mir 00:17, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I should say that the 2000 results were significant because they led to all the controversy of the counting and legal challenges, causing the result of the election to be in doubt until the Supreme Court ruled PaulHammond 09:49, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Drunk / Drugs / etc

I agree that this article seems to have been seriously messed up, although I don't agree with all your points.

A whole paragraph of completely uncontroversial information, such as his birthplace and parents' names, was deleted. I've restored it.
Also deleted were two pictures, one of Bush with his family and one of Bush in his National Guard uniform. I've restored the pics.
The addition of the statement that Bush signed up in the Guard "Specifically asking to not be sent to Vietnam" wasn't sourced. I've deleted it unless someone can provide substantiation.
There was unacceptable POVing in both directions. The NPOV approach is to report controversial points without taking sides and without wording that's biased one way or the other.
- The language about Bush's drinking was full of "supposedly" and "claim" for his side of it, and said that the opposite view is "well documented". I understand the temptation to take sides -- the people editing the Killian documents article just aren't satisfied with listing all the evidence, they too have to make sure that the article echoes their view of the weight of the evidence. It's wrong when Bush partisans do it there, and wrong when Bush detractors do it here. That Bush isn't drinking any more should certainly be presented as something he says, not as an undisputed fact, but we can make clear that it's his statement without going out of our way with the "supposedly" stuff to cast doubt on it. I've tried to clean up these passages.
- The Hatfield allegations should be reported as allegations, not suppressed and not reported as fact, and with the responses also reported. I've restored the first paragraph about Hatfield; the text of the article when I looked at it just now quoted Bush's side of the story ("He also called Hatfield's book 'totally ridiculous'.") without naming the book or summarizing its content. At some point, however, the paragraph about Hatfield's book picked up a statement to the effect that the record of Bush's cocaine arrest was in fact expunged. That's Hatfield's allegation, not an established fact.
One point I still have doubts about is this insert about the space exploration initiative: "in January of 2005 the White House released a new Space Transportation Policy fact sheet which confirms the plan is still on track." My preliminary impression is that that's a POV overstatement and should be reworded. I've left it alone for now, but I think it needs attention. JamesMLane 10:58, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Maybe somebody could update the article as to how Bush's previously announced War on Steroid Abuse is coming along. Grin grin. Gzuckier 21:15, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The source for Bush asking not to be sent to nam is all over the place. a google search found this ...which you may agree is a valid source (his own form). Andsat 04:40, 19 Jan 2005 (EST)

Oh come on here, I see Kerry's signature on his form, but I don't see Bush's on the part that is supposed to be from his form.--MONGO 12:04, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Inuendo and slander

Liberal has an entirely different meaning in Europe. Don't confuse them with US democrats, hippies or guerillas ;)

Salon.com's February, 2004 report

MONGO removed this:

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/02/06/drugs/index_np.html

See article referenced above --Tony Sidaway|Talk 13:12, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)

"Gentleman" Cs

If you have a public source for someone making this point about Bush's Cs, please feel free to add it. But if you just thought of this and there is no external source then it may be "original research", not encyclopedic. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 15:58, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Original research? Wishful thinking more like it. I second the call for external sources. -- Nils 12:28, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Vandalism

Would someone please protect this page for twenty-four hows or something?

You voted for Kucinich? Seems like you and I made a good choice at least. I agree on the lock though, we could be spending our time doing much more productive things. :)

That amount of vanderlism recived by this article in the last 24 hours doesn't seem hugley exceptionalGeni 03:07, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The "Dry Drunk" nonsense

Mongo, I don't think we need to turn every content dispute (or any content dispute) into an open argument about Iraq. Gazpacho

Most of my argument has been about content, this is my first about Iraq...what are you refering to?--MONGO 12:39, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)

2005 Inaugural and Foreign Policy

I added some information about Bush's inaugural address. Please check it out --Ben 20:18, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Reverted after three weeks, as it was a shameless and fraudulent mangling of Bush's words. Gazpacho 06:58, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

NPOV?

In addition to having an obvious left-wing slant, this article is way too long. Can we get rid of the irrelevant anti-Bush commentry and actually talk about his presidency? - Jan 16, 2005

Consistant economic reference points

Jeb reference

I don't think it is the proper scholar way to refer to a person by his nickname alone in an enciclopedic entry. I'd suggest "John Ellis (aka. Jeb)".

I don't think he even calls himself John. Almost everything I have seen from the Governor's office either referrers to him as Governor Bush or Jeb. Heck I didn't even know his middle name until you posted it. PPGMD

Missing a related article

I hate bush...

Unprotect page after seven days

Well, this page wasn't protected because of controversial material; it was protected because of stupid vandalism -- ranging in the hundreds of edits per day. --Modemac 11:44, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Another factual error

George W. Bush's predessor was William Jefferson Clinton, 'Bill' Clinton is a nickname. Clinton's full legal name should be used. Revmachine21 03:07, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Does this apply to the 2000 elections? Anyway, the popular vote is just trivia; it's of no legal significance and questionable significance of any kind. Very Verily 06:09, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Categories: Talk archives

Talk:George W. Bush/Archive 17.3

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Contents

Drunk / Drugs / etc

Inuendo and slander

Salon.com's February, 2004 report

"Gentleman" Cs

Vandalism

Related links

The "Dry Drunk" nonsense

2005 Inaugural and Foreign Policy

NPOV?

Consistant economic reference points

Jeb reference

Missing a related article

Unprotect page after seven days

Another factual error

Drunk / Drugs / etc

Inuendo and slander

Salon.com's February, 2004 report

"Gentleman" Cs

Vandalism

Related links

The "Dry Drunk" nonsense

2005 Inaugural and Foreign Policy

NPOV?

Consistant economic reference points

Jeb reference

Missing a related article

Unprotect page after seven days

Another factual error

Views

Navigation

Interaction

Search