Talk:George V of the United Kingdom

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Contents

[edit] older entries

In the City of Worcester, England, there is a public Museum and Art Gallery.

There is a stone inscription that the building was opened by The Duke of York in (1896? 1897?).

I had not realised until now that that person was later King George V.

Hopefully, once this is checked for date and wording the page could have added a note that his former title is preserved in stone in that building.

Does anyone know of any building opened by him as Prince of Wales where an inscription is readily viewable?

Songwriter 18:53 3 Jul 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Lake George, Uganda

Somewhere in this article it should be mentioned that Lake George in Uganda is named after George V. — mark ✎ 15:20, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

...and also other things named after him, like King George V DLR station and George V Paris Métro station. 217.208.26.177 15:18, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Princess May

The article metions that he marries "Princesses Mary" but then goes onto refer to her as 'May' is this correct or a typo? I don;t know enough about the subject to just go and change it.

HSH Princess Victoria Mary Augusta Luisa Olga Pauline Claudine Agnes of Teck was generally known as "Princess May" before her marriage. - Nunh-huh 18:58, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Her name was actually Victoria Mary, generally known as Mary of Teck. She was only called May within her family; nobody ever referred to her as Princess May outside her family, and inside the family they just called her May. When she became queen her husband wanted her to use just one name, and neither thought Queen Victoria would be proper for obvious reasons (Victoria had only been dead nine years) Therefore she decided to be called Queen Mary. RockStarSheister (talk) 23:52, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] George V has tattooes?

A few days ago this article had the following note:

"King George V was a very short and slender man, although in movies and television he is often portrayed as a tall and intimidating man. Though his true height was a "state secret," it believed he was no taller then 5 feet 5 inches. The King also had a few tattoos on his arms which he had gotten done during his days in the navy. After becoming King, he would never allow them to been seen in public again."

About his height, I remember the photo taken with King George and Tsar Nicholas II of Russia side by side, as you can see in this site:

http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=Windsor;action=display;num=1093459758

They seem to had the same height and I know that the Tsar had 1,67 m, so King George had about the same!

King Geogre V has tattoes from many different parts of the Empire?!

Is that true? If so, thats hilarious.--129.12.200.49 09:44, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

There was an incident related by his official biographer, Harold Nicolson that when on a tour of the Botanical Gardens in Barbados George smelt a large lily which resulted in his nose being powdered with yellow pollen. A journalist mistook this for a permanent mark and cabled home saying that the Prince had been tatooed on the nose. Obviously, he had not been. DrKiernan 12:07, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

From Kenneth Rose's biography (King George V London:Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1983 p.13): "In Tokyo each spent three hours under the needle acquiring elaborate dragons of red and blue on their arms. Further designs were added in Kyoto and in Jerusalem.[1] George Burchett, the doyen of British tatooists, was many years later able to inspect the ornaments which Prince George continued to carry for the rest of his life. 'I was honoured', he wrote demurely in his memoirs, 'to be called upon to make certain improvements to them which the King instituted on Queen Mary's suggestion.[2]"

  1. ^ John Neale Dalton, The Cruise of HMS Bacchante vol.II p.41, 46 and 99
  2. ^ George Burchett, Memoirs of a Tatooist (Oldbourne, 1958) p.100

DrKiernan 09:29, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Succession box

Could someone who knows about succession boxes change it please? I tried to but got lost. It was wrong before: It says his title as "King of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" was succeeded by new style (before listed as King of Great Britain and Ireland but now correctly changed to King of THE UNITED KINGDOM of Great Britain and NORTHERN Ireland), then goes on to say the new style was preceded by Edward VII!!! This can't be so if it was a NEW style as it wouldn't have existed under Edward VII! I tried to change it so it read "preceded by New Style" but couldn't move Emperor of India -- could someone help me out? Cheers.

I've played with the boxes a bit—is that what you were looking for? --Mackensen (talk) 07:03, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Yep thats perfect thanks!

[edit] Kaiser and Tsar v. Emperor

I'm not up on all the intricacies of Wikipedia's policy on royal titles, but why does this article use "Emperor" instead of "Kaiser" or "Tsar" when (to me, at least) it seems appropriate? "Emperor Wilhelm II" made me second guess myself and actually click on the link to make sure it was who I thought it was; is there a reason those non-English yet more familiar titles aren't used? Is there a technicality I'm missing? Kafziel 04:34, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't think that usage is so overwhelmingly dominated by one way that there is any demand to do one thing or the other. I do agree that "Emperor Wilhelm II" seems odd. "Kaiser Wilhelm II" or "Emperor William II" seem more appropriate. But, to be honest, it doesn't really matter. john k 05:40, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Is there any good reason not to use Kaiser, the term English-speakers are familiar with for the German Emperor? I will wait 24 hours to make a change. -Rrius (talk) 21:42, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Help wanted to deal with a George V of the United Kingdom spammer

Every so often a spammer using an IP address that starts with 64.228.225. spams links to bogus web sites. I have tracked down and reverted all I could find, but I'm getting a little sick of tracking all these articles on my watchlist (it's up to 263 pages by now). Can I ask the regular, frequent editors of this article to keep an eye out for this person? If they hit again, please revert the edit and warn the spammer. If you have the time, check out what other edits they made that day and revert them as well -- or just let me know and I'll do it.

The link they like to add to this article is [http:// kinggeorge rules it/ King-Emperor George V Tribute Page]. The real point of the link is to build search engine rankings for the commercial links at the bottom of the page; the same spamdexer is linking similarly bogus pages for Hindu mystical figures and U.S. country music stars -- all with the same links at the bottom of the page.

The spammer also recently created an account, User:Borgengruft.

For more info, see:

Thanks for your help.--A. B. 06:06, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] George V, Czar Nicholas II Resemblance

>>It is often claimed that at the wedding, many people were confused as to who was King George V and who was Tsar Nicholas II of Russia, because they superficially looked alike. In fact, the two cousins resembled each other only insofar as their beards and dress were concerned. Otherwise, their features were quite different.<<

Then, in a later paragraph: >>The two men were almost identical in appearance. According to legend, Nicholas was mistaken for George at the latter's own wedding reception.<<

References to appearance are basically opionion(in my opinion, the second statement is closer to the truth than the first, particularly regarding their height, high foreheads, noses, and even eyes---see photo: http://www.firstworldwar.com/photos/graphics/nw_nicholas_george_01.jpg ). Regardless, this is subjective commentary and should be removed and left for readers to decide. That fact that there are two contradictory statements in the same entry only highlights this fact.

The idea that the two men were similar looking is a very common one - I'm sure we could find reliable sources mentioning this. It is famous that the two have been thought to look alike. I think we should mention that, without actually saying that they did look alike, if that makes any sense. john k 12:51, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I have added an original source from the day after the wedding, when The Times reported that the "extraordinary likeness" of the Tsarevitch for the Duke of York "may have contributed to secure for him additional cheers." I do however still think that we should keep in the sentence saying that they were not alike. Their eyes are totally different, and we can use the evidence of our own eyes to know that this is true. DrKiernan 13:21, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

They weren't identical, certainly, but they did resemble each enough that their similar beards made them hard to distinguish. That seems to be the fact of it. john k 13:56, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Hmmn. I agree with your previous comment that we need to come up with a well-turned phrase that covers both aspects. DrKiernan 14:20, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Do the two men in this image look the same to you? If so, you are a racist and a ageist and a hairist who thinks all middle-aged white men with beards look the same! (Even when one has brown eyes and the other protruding blue ones?) As a middle-aged white man with a beard I object to your discrimination and demand that it be stopped!!! DrKiernan 07:49, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure how serious you're being, but yes, they do look alike to me. Certainly one is not surprised to learn that they are first cousins. They have similar noses, for instance, and the shape of their faces is similar, as well. Obviously they are not identical twins, but there is definitely a distinct resemblance. john k 17:39, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Death

[edit] Murdered by his Doctor?

Why is the euthansia bit in a footnote... seems like main text information to me. Pcb21| Pete 09:49, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[2] It has recently been alleged that King George was murdered by his court physician, Dr. Watson. The King, in great pain, was resolute and strongly resisting passing while on his deathbed. According to some sources, Dr. Watson injected the king with a lethal combination of cocaine and morphine the night of his death so that he would not survive into the morning. Dr. Watson's excuse was to speed the king's death and end suffering and also so that his death could be reported in the morning edition of The Times.
"According to some sources" - what sources? Mintguy (T) 10:05, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)
There seems to be a number of these sorts of allegations and rumours creeping into English royalty pages. Queen Victoria's page is similarly afflicted. I'm very tempted to start taking these things out -they seem to be giving the articles a gossip column flavour, and they certainly don't seem very NPOV to me. Arno 00:41, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I totally agree with this statement - - we have to purge out gossip and hearsay. While the sources cited below seem to be impeccable, the suggestion that the "lethal dose" was administered at the behest of George V's wife Mary is calumny - Anon
The source of this story, which is closer to established fact than "gossip", is Lord Dawson of Penn's (Watson's) own diary, the contents of which became widely known in the 1980s when his biography was published, and the diary was used as a source. In terms of online sources, there is this article in the British Medical Journal, which states that Dawson "administered a lethal combination of morphine and cocaine at a time when the king was already comatose and close to death. His action remained a well kept secret and the truth came to light only 50 years later when his private diary was opened, Dawson having died in 1945.". The diary also contains the rationale for the euthenasia, which is correct as stated in the article. - Nunh-huh 22:23, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Further references:
Kelleher MJ. "Arranging the death of a king." Crisis. 1998;19(1):6-7.
Ramsay JH. "A king, a doctor, and a convenient death." British Medical Journal. 1994 May 28;308(6941):1445.
Watson F. "The death of George V." History Today. 1986 Dec;36:21-30.
Lelyveld J. "1936 secret is out: doctor sped George V's death." The New York Times. 1986 Nov 28;:A1, A3.
-- Nunh-huh 22:39, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)
So its Dawson. Not Watson. Well I'm glad I asked. Mintguy (T) 22:58, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC) I've got him pinned down now. He was Bertrand Edward Dawson, 1st Viscount Dawson of Penn

[The Doctor administered drugs] to end the King's suffering, and perhaps hoped the monarch would die before midnight so that his death could be announced in the morning Times

I don't dispute that King George was administered drugs which might have hastened his death, such things happen relatively frequently at the end of life. What surprises me is the allegation that 'perhaps' this was done deliberately for the sake of newspaper coverage. Such an act would be legally regarded as murder; is there a credible source for the fact that King George was murdered in this way? (a primary source, not mere repetition of a rumour). All facts, especially controversial facts, must be credibly referenced - I'm sure we all know this. The doctor 'perhaps hoped', well did he or didn't he? Is there actual proof of this other than hearsay and innuendo? Xdamr 01:20, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Though George was apparently euthanised by injections of morphine and cocaine (ironically the very drugs his son the Duke of Kent was addicted to and made to go on cold turkey from), what exactly was the terminal illness from which he was dying? Lec CRP1 00:18, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Emphysema. DrKiernan 07:37, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually, that's over-simplistic. A more accurate diagnosis would be Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease, which includes all the illnesses that he suffered in the years leading up to his death, including pleurisy, bronchiectasis and bronchitis (and emphysema). All of which are, of course, caused by smoking. The final illness he suffered in the winter of 1935-6 was acute bronchial infection. DrKiernan 09:48, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Regicide

His end was hastened by his physician, Lord Dawson of Penn, who gave him a lethal injection of cocaine and morphine to ease his suffering and also that the news of his death could be announced in the morning edition of The Times newspaper.

ref. Francis Watson, The Death of George V In: History Today (1986) vol.36, pp.21-30

I see this allegation has come back (bold text). Given its serious nature I think that the exact nature of the History Today article needs to be explored. Is is mere repetition of a rumour, or is is a piece of original research or scholarship? I'm not sure that History Today fulfils the requirements of WP:RS, but it depends what the assertion is. It really requires a pretty watertight source to provide conclusive evidence of the doctor's motives; if History Today provides this evidence, fine - if not then an allegation like this hurts the credibility of the article as a whole. Xdamrtalk 12:43, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

The only source has already been discussed above. It is Lord Dawson's diary as quoted by Francis Watson in his article in 'History Today' (he discovered the diary during his research for his biography of Dawson published in 1950). The quote from the diaries is repeated in other respectable journals, such as the British Medical Journal: "Dawson frankly admits in his diary..<snip>..to ensure that the announcement of the king's death should appear first in the morning edition of the Times". It is only one of the reasons mentioned: Dawson devotes more lines to discussing the strain the family was under, the dignity of the King, and that the King would not regain consciousness. He admits that it was his sole decision and action (although he says the Prince of Wales told Dawson that Edward and Queen Mary did not want the King's life to be prolonged unnecessarily). That December Dawson spoke out against the legalisation of euthanasia in the House of Lords, on the basis that such an important decision should be left in the hands of professionals rather than bureaucrats. You can read the article online for a fee at http://www.historytoday.com :DrKiernan 08:34, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
Ok, that sounds reasonable enough. Perhaps this could do with better explanation in the article itself? Coming across this allegation, I took it to be part of the regrettable modern tendency to make discreditable insinuations against past figures on flimsy evidence or mere rumour. Noting in the main text that the inference in question comes from Dawson's own diary would eliminate this suggestion.
Xdamrtalk 23:33, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree entirely, and have made the appropriate changes. DrKiernan 08:46, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't have the cite and therefore will not change the article, but I read that the reason he was given the fatal injection was that if he had lived another twelve hours and then expired, the death would have been originally reported in the less auspicious afternoon papers. By speeding up the process when he did, the doctor guaranteed that the King's death would be initially reported in the more highly respected morning papers. Like I said, I may be wrong and have no cite, so I'm not putting it in the article. It's just something I read once. RockStarSheister (talk) 23:56, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GRI

Can someone please introduce "Georgius Rex Imperator" somewhere in the article and redirect here? I stumbled upon it whle collecting the "GRI". `'mikkanarxi 00:15, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Date of coronation durbar?

Wasn't the date of the coronation durbar in Delhi Dec 12, 1911? Is the article only implying that they travelled to India on Dec 11, 1911? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 194.130.136.219 (talk) 12:46, 13 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Passed GA standard

I've just reveiwed and passed this article for GA standard. It's informative and accurate, well referenced and quite well illustrated.--Cailil 19:45, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lead-up to WWII

I have removed the phrase inserted at the end of the article "(And World War II started three years later)." I think the editor was right to point out that George's distrust of the Nazis should be mentioned in the article, probably in the reign section between the sentence on the christmas broadcast and the silver jubilee, and that it is an important part of his later reign which is currently not covered. However, the phrase looks a little out-of-place, as if stuck on as an afterthought, and deserves to be better integrated into the body of the text with an appropriate citation for his anti-Nazi attitudes. DrKiernan 13:05, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Grandchildren

I would like to see this section removed. It duplicates material already given in other articles as well as further up the page in the {{House of Windsor}} template. The names of his other grandchildren could be added there. -- DrKiernan (talk) 18:20, 16 November 2007 (UTC) Is there any reason why some of his grandchildren are missing from the list in the House of Windsor template? Specifically, the children of the Princess Royal? --Hagi2000 (talk) 17:02, 24 May 2008 (UTC)