Portal talk:Georgia (country)

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This talk page is for the Portal about Georgia (country). Ensure this portal's details are listed in the Portal directory. Discussion should centre on improving the Portal. Content disputes should take place on the appropriate article's talk page. For discussion about Portals generally, please see the WikiProject on Portals.

Contents 1 Sakartvelo 2 Congrats 3 Georgian UserBox 4 Sveti-tskhoveli 5 colors and formatting 6 Georgian Army 7 Sameba needs help 8 Georgia (country) 9 Sukhumi 10 Moving in Abkhazia 11 Saint George 12 Georgian Bible 13 Origin of the name 14 Cross 15 Rustaveli 16 Articles without Georgian 17 Image:Newfamousgeorgians9873.jpg 18 საქართველოს სკაუტური მოძრაობის ორგანიზაცია 19 Russian and Soviet Military History Task Force 20 Linkless Georgian article Keipi 21 Abkazia - independent republic? 22 Georgia WikiProject 23 Black Sea Fleet 24 Banner 25 Wikipedia:Centralized discussion/Country of birth 26 Talk:Mingrelians

[edit] Sakartvelo

I have a general concern on the convention: საქართველო - sakartvelo - "k" in this word is actually "q", how was it decided that it should not be "saqartvelo"? Alsandro 16:53, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Saqartvelo seems to be more correct transliteration. However, Georgian national system of romanization requires to use k. --Kober 17:04, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Congrats

Congrats and good luck to our Georgian friends with the new portal. I hope we can successfully cooperate to make better articles about our region and our countries. Feel free to post any messages at Wikipedia:WikiProject Azeri. Regards, Grandmaster 18:22, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

how great news! congratulations georgians with this awesome portal! it really looks great, wonderfull job, keep it up!! Karabakh 09:46, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks a lot. I'd be really happy to have a chance to help with the Azeri portal. Kober 11:16, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Congrats with the portal brothers it looks really great! Also congrats with the removal of Russian base and troops from Georgia. Baku87 09:32, 4 June 2006 (UTC)Baku87

Thanks a lot, Baku. Cheers, --Kober 19:00, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Georgian UserBox

I just want to let you guys know about the new UserBox. Simply by typing {{User Proud Georgian}} in your UserBox section you will get this Userbox:

Regards
Sosomk 16:29, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Good job, Soso. Thanks a lot, --Kober 20:10, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Great job Giv Koberidz from Tbilis, you finnaly achived Portal for Georgia :) and finnaly Bagrationi is a separate article. BTW did you visit Bolshevik occupation museum in Tbilisi? I saw photos of the exibition and they were amazing. Keep up with the great work! Lus Dingl from Canadistan or Canad :) Noxchi Borz 15:43, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Hey Luis, thanks a lot. Yes, I visited this museum - a long-needed one indeed. And its collection is becoming larger. I like your sense of humor, my friend from Canadistan:):)--Kober 13:49, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

There was a photo of Cholokhashvili on that exhibition, he is sitting on the chair. I cant find that one anywhere :( Our friend from Ajaristan or Ajar has better sence of humor, like Abkhaz and Ossetians, he cuts Georgian words to make them sound funny. :) Suhum, Batum, Tshinval, Kutais, etc. BTW did you ever ask yourself a question why do abkhaz call themselves “Aps'wa” and call Abkhazia “Apsny”?

Latin word Abkhazia originated from Georgian name Apkhazeti. Do you know where the word Apsny (translation: the country of soul) originated? One of the regions in Adigey. Tell me this, how did it ended up on the shores of the black sea? And why do we call those separatists today "abkhaz" when they are not? Did you know before 1900s there was no single tension between so called "abkhaz" and mingrelians? Where did i get all of this? research my friend :) German universities have best books about Caucasus. Some of them published in 1800s. Sad eh? Very sad. BTW article about Abazin migration to N Caucasus from Abkhazia is a complete falsehood. Now try to explain that to people. That’s why not everyone has abilities for science called history :) All the best qartvelians

. Noxchi Borz 00:39, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Totally agree with you. I requested a citation for that claim in the Abazins article. Medieval Georgian called who-are-now Abkhazs Apsars and Abkhazia was referred to the whole Western Georgia until the term gradually narrowed to denote a region which was largely forested and scarcely inhabited except for a few larger towns populated by Mingrelians and foothills populated by Svans and only in northeast by Abkhaz.

Btw, do you mean a photo depicting Cholokashvili in a French hospital? There was another photo of Cholokashvili and his friend Alexander Sulkhanishvili sitting at the table.--Kober 05:09, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Kober, yes that article is based on false information or someone’s personal agenda. The one you attached to my user page was the one i was looking for. If you can find better quality one, i would be very grateful. You are correct, the whole Western Georgia was called Abkhazia with the capital in Kutaisi:) Noxchi Borz 13:14, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I will try to get more sources about the modern-day Abkhazs: Roger Rosen might has written something about it. As you know there was a man called Sergo Orjonikidze in Georgian history. I think he is one of the darkest parts of Georgian history and as you know he was the commander of the Red Army which took over Georgia in 1921. As I remember from the history, he has something to do with the migration of northern Caucasusians in Georgia. He granted land to Ossetians (modern day South Ossetia) and I believe he was the one who gave Sochi to Russians and supported the migration of Abkhazs. In addition he gave many territories to Turkey and Azerbaijan,which were located south to Adjara and Kakheti. If you visited the Soviet Occupation museum in Tbilisi you probably saw what people did to the statue of Orjonikidze in 1991. It is also ironic that the person who stopped Orjonikidze from giving out Georgian teritories was Stalin. In addition, the capital od South Ossetia Tskhinvali was called Orjonikidze during the Soviet times.

Oh, now I see The Truth. Orjonikidze moved Abkhaz to Abkhazia and got Tskhinvali named in his honour. One surely has to do lots of research to come up with facts like these ))) Alæxis_¿question? 15:49, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

I think you were talking about Cholokashvili's picture where he is a fedora hat. I am going to try to get that picture online. By the way my family comes from Matani, Cholokashvili's birthplace. Sosomk 09:30, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sveti-tskhoveli

[[Image:NonFreeImageRemoved.svg -->|100px]] Hi. I just wanted let you know that I just update an article about Sveti-tskhoveli Cathedral. The article needs lots of technical work and more pictures of the inerior of the church. Please help me out if you have some pictures.Sosomk 15:29, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Soso I would be very grateful if you can find that photo of Cholokhashvili. You also should create the article on Sameba and place the photo of Sameba on Eastern Orthodox Church article. It’s the second largest (if not more than Sofia) Orthodox Church in the world. The only photos you see on that article is of Russian churches. Ldingley 17:05, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Great job on Svetitskhovrli, Soso. Thanks alot.

Dear Luis, Soso promised to try to get the photo of Cholokashvili. Also I started to work on History of Abkhazia article, but I have not yet put it on wiki. I'll soon post a draft version on User:Kober/Draft so you can you make proper corrections and additions. All the best, --Kober 17:41, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Dear Givi, Thanks for your Canada Day surprise and for helping me to find the photo. It was a great idea to do the article on History of Abkhazia. I'll take a look. All the best. Ldingley 18:27, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] colors and formatting

The box header colors are too bright and do not fit well with the Wikipedia color scheme. Would you mind more subdued, pastel shades instead? I could make the change and if everyone objects, this could be reversed. best. - Alsandro 16:36, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

You are welcome to make the changes :). Feel free to modify the portal page as you see fit.--Kober 16:51, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

alright then. I made minor realignments to balance the boxes at the bottom of the page; changed the box header color to a shade of light blue as in the wikipedia color scheme (it blends well with the links, I think); and inserted the welcome line into the introduction box header, that's about it. Also the news box photo has a problem in firefox, I think this is a common bug and there is a fix for it (which I have to look up). I couldn't compare how it looks on MSIE though. If any objections or another color is prefered, please let me know. cheers. Alsandro 19:32, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Good job, Alsandro. Thanks,--Kober 20:02, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

) Ldingley 19:22, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

guys, I think this is extremely offensive and should be removed immediately. Alsandro 19:33, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Offensive to whom? To Apsua separatists like Arzimba and Bagapsh or to you personally? common.... :) Ldingley 20:14, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Luis, I did enjoy the image and mood reflected in this :), but we have to remove it as I don't want you to have some problems here. Anyway, thanks a lot for your support. They deserve more! --Kober 19:58, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Kober, im already in problems my dear friend :) Georgia is in a bigger problem of loosing Abkhazia due to their insufficiency and inaction. Western or my support is not enough. It all comes to what Georgia will do in the end. BTW do you know where this apsua hand comes from? Abazgin tribes had a white flag with the red hand in the middle (just like Apsua one). They marched under that flag against Tsarist forces and now ended up on the side of Russians, ironic. Kober who labeled this article Abkhaz people? Ldingley 20:14, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Kober, can you please review Abkhaz people and make corrections? We will fix your link to the History of Abkhazia article on that disputed section. Thanks. Ldingley 01:20, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

The pic was hillarious, I think it was awsome. I agree with Luis and I don't see any reasons why should Kober and Alsandero care about the idiots like Bagapsh and his government. If they don't like it, screw them. They are stupid anyway. I don't like many things about thm also. I don't justify any tolerane towards them. Russian media is also full of crap saying: cruel Georgian are oppressing the ethnic minorities. The fact that there is not a single house in Chechnya, which was not bombed by the Russians seems to be ok. Chechen genocide in Russia also seems ok, but making fun of the defacto, thug Abkhazia government is a facism. That does not make any sense. It would be better for Bagapsh to come on his mind.Sosomk 08:14, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't care about Bagapsh and Co and I also found the picture great, but I don't want Luis and the portal page to be subjected to sanctions from admins, who sometimes misuse their powers because they frequently have biased opinions. Luis and I are currently trying to improve the Abkhazia-related articles which are mostly biased and I think this is a better way to let the world know the truth about the Abkhazia tragedy. --Kober 08:31, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

You have a point Kober. I hope I did not offend Bagapsh and Co with high sensibilities.:)Sosomk 08:43, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't know how to translate in English a Georgian proverb: "let them drink cold water", man. :):)--Kober 08:50, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

In addition, the comment was not directed towards Kober or Alsandro. Kober is a great user and does a perfect job on wikipedia. Sosomk 08:51, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks a lot, Soso. I think the pic should be placed just at the Enguri bridge. This is the most appropriate place, I guess. :)--Kober 08:55, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

"let them drink cold water" ia a 100% unique Georgian proverb and I have no idea how to translate it correctly. Let's say :"let them drink cold Coke"Sosomk 08:59, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Georgian Army

Hi All, I think this article Military of Georgia needs lots of modifications and extra info. It would be great if someone can do it. Ldingley 21:39, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sameba needs help

Need help with Holy Trinity Cathedral, Tbilisi. Your suggestions please. Thanks to all. Ldingley 18:13, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Dear Luis, it is a summertime and I am trying to get some break. I will definetely write an article about Sameba soon.Sosomk 10:20, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Dear soso, thanks a lot. We desperately need info on Sameba. Thanks again!Ldingley 17:32, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Here is a huge article in Georgian about Sameba. I started translating it, but I'm not very good at architectural terminology and I need some more time to complete it.--Kober 15:47, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I think soso is a qualified person for architectural terminology :) Ldingley 16:10, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Good job, Kober. This article has a good foundation to start with. However, we will have to modify the article little bit to make it good looking. In addition, I believe that the claim that the Serbian cathedral is the biggest Orthodox Church is not true, because I know it for sure that Sameba is the biggest after Hagia Sofia. However, Hagia Sofia is not a christian church after Turks converted it to a mosque. EU parliament asked Turkish government to give the cathedral back to the Christians, but I don't know when it is gonna happen. So, I belive that the statistics that say that the Serbian church is the biggest is definetely not true. I am gonna try to see somebody who works for the press center for the Georgian Patriarchate. I think they can give us good help for the article. We also need the artchitectural plan and lots of pictures and etc. In addition, we all are kind of busy trying to relax in summer and if we can finish during the month of August will be great.regards.Sosomk 10:58, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Georgia (country)

Dear Friends, As you see there are lots of meaningless resistance around the issue of moving Georgia (country) to Georgia. So should we consider the move from Georgia (country) to Georgia (Sakartvelo). In my opinion it is more correct. At least it follows the constitution of Georgia.Sosomk 10:38, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

uuhg. no. let it be the way it is--UltioUltionis (talk) 22:27, 5 April 2008 (UTC),.

[edit] Sukhumi

Dear Georgians (qartvelebi, ibero-kavkasiel, cousins of Basque, Corsicans and proud sons of kartlos)! Kober, good job on Sukhumi, you were correct, before it looked like a guide book for Russian tourists in 19 century :) We need to improve Georgian-Abkhaz conflict and fix Sameba. Take your time with History of Abkhazia, let me know if you need help. Soso can you help out to complete the Holy Trinity Cathedral, Tbilisi article?

[edit] Moving in Abkhazia

Abkhazian govt in exile is gonna move in Kodori region of Georgia which is the territory of Abkhazia. So, I believe that this is a great move towards finally getting total control over Abkhazia. Great job Kober on govt article and hopefully we will be able to spend our summer holidays in SokhumiSosomk 18:21, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Why Sukhumi? Pinsunda is better or Akhali Atoni. Ldingley 18:38, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Saint George

I added Georgia section in Saint George Please, read it and let me know your opinion. Does a folk tale need to be there? Sosomk 11:56, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Good job, Soso. I think a tale is an interesting one and there's nothing wrong with it to be a part of the article. What about to create a separate article about St George's cult in Georgia? There's a lot to write about. Thanks, --Kober 12:24, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Georgian Bible

A page from a rare 12th century Gelati Gospel depicting the Nativity

DC003681.jpg Same Bible

A page from a rare Synaxarium, a short collection of the lives of saints, dating from 1030, depicting the Raising of Lazarus

I think Luis added a section in Georgia's article about religion. I added some more sentences and please see if it is relevant. Sosomk 13:35, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Origin of the name

I was just wondering that the section in the Georgia (country) page might not be very accurate. I know it for sure that George is a Greek name and means a "farmer" and Georgia is a "farmland". The eastern world knew Georgians as jurgs or gurgs, indicating farming. My point is that the name Georgia comes from Greeak , not from Persian.Sosomk 11:24, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, there are two theories concerning “Georgia.” One you have mentioned about the Greek is version is also part of the theory. In Persian the word "Gorj” means wolf. There can be two explanations why Persians called qartvelians as people of wolf. Vakhtang Gorgasali, when thrusting on the invading Persians, had an interesting helmet made of wolfs head. Many Persian generals called him "Gorj” meaning wolf. Another explanation can be made from the alleged worship of wolf among the qartvelian tribes and upon discovery of this practice, Persians called these people the nation of wolf. Some of the Afghans told me that in their interpretation the word Gurj گرجستان for Georgian means people of beauty or beautiful people. That was probably due to Shah Abbas deportations of physically beautiful youth into Persia and Aghanistan. For example, Afghans call a dog (im not sure what kind of the dog it is) which they conceder beautiful, gurji. But greek version is highly probable. Georgian name had different stages of transformation, ex the name Iberia: Tiberani-Iberani-Iberian-Iverian. In Assyrian: Iberani, In Armenian Virq originated from Iber/Tiberani/Iver. Persian: Gurji-Gurj-Gurjistan, Turkish originated from Persian Gurj, Gurcuse-Gurcustan, Russian also originated from Persian Gurj, Gruzin-Gruziya. Abkhaz originated from Mingrelian Qortu: Қырҭтәыл Qarttwal-Qarttwala, Chechen (belive it or not Chechens in south call Georgians Kists) Kart-Kist, and so on. But I belive the name Georgia did not originate from Persian Gurjistan جورجيا, but more from Greek Γεωργία. Ldingley 17:15, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cross

Gentleman, see any similarities? Amazing eh? Both nations are Fist/Early Christians. From my trip to S Egypt. Ldingley 18:53, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

GZ001540.jpg Bolnisi Cross in Georgia

Coptic Cross at Philae.jpg Coptic Cross, 6 century

DB001270.jpg Coptic Cross and depiction of Christ

DB001324.jpg Coptic Cross, 4 century

Wow, it's unbeliveable. Sosomk 18:57, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

I would never think that any Cross would be similar to Bolnisi Cross. Sosomk 18:59, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Soso, take a loot at the third one. See the grapes around the cross just above Christ in the cercal? Its typically Georgian style (cross with grapes) but its Coptic :) Actually cross like this was very common among early Christians. Bolnisi Cross of Georgia is one f the earliest Christian symbols of early Christian communities. Ldingley 19:03, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

If I just saw a picture I would never belive that it is not Georgian execpet of the fact that he alphabet is different. Sosomk 19:23, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Amazing pics, Luis! My dear friends, please check Talk:Tbilisi Sameba Cathedral.--Kober 06:14, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rustaveli

[edit] Articles without Georgian

All speakers of Georgian please keep a look at Category:Lacking Georgian text. --Explendido Rocha 11:04, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Newfamousgeorgians9873.jpg

ამაზე უკვე დავწერე აქ Talk:Georgian people. ეხლა ქართულენოვანი რედაქტორებისთვის ვწერ. ზოგიერთი ადამიანი ამ ფოტოებიდან არც კი გამიგია, მაშინ როცა მე ქართველი ვარ და სხვა მომხმარებლებისთვის რა იქნება. სხვა, ეკატერინე დადიანი კი გამიგია, მაგრამ რატომ არის ამ რვა თუ ათ ქართველს შორის არჩეული არ ვიცი. სტალინი უნდა იყოს. ოთხი თუ ხუთი ხელოვნების წარმომადგენელი რატომ არის? ესეთ რამ რომ გამოვრიცხოთ არ ჯობია ჯერ სფეროები ავირჩიოთ და შემდეგ თითოეული სფეროსათვის პიროვნებები. Tamokk 17:22, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

გამარჯობა. გეთანხები რომ გალერეაში ცვლილებებია შესატანი, მაგრამ სტალინის დამატება ეთიკურად გაუმართლებელია რადგანაც ბევრი ქართველისთვის, მათ შორის ჩემთვის, უბედურებასთან და სისხლიან წარსულთან არის დაკავშირებული.--Kober 17:29, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Image:Geopeoplerev005.jpg

How about this one? Ldingley 18:49, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

კარგი არ გვინდა სტალინი. მე მგონი ჯობია ქვეყნის ამჟამინდელი პრეზიდენტიც არ იყოს. Tamokk 19:49, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

roca suratebis uploads aketebt tavisufali licenziit, sheitanet pirdapit vikisackobshi (commons), rom sxvaenovan enciklopediebshic ikos mati gamokeneba shesadzlebeli (tundac qartulshi). gmadlobt. - 128.59.130.171 20:04, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] საქართველოს სკაუტური მოძრაობის ორგანიზაცია

I apologize for putting this here, but this article has been on the translation page since 2005, so I would appreciate it if any of you who can would please take a look at Sakartvelos Skauturi Modzraobis Organizatsia? In particular, the scout oath and the scout law still need to be translated. I really appreciate any time and effort you put into translating these few phrases. Thank you very much! -Yupik 06:22, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Russian and Soviet Military History Task Force

There is a proposal at the Military History WikiProject to establish a Russian and Soviet military history task force. Interested participants, please have a look at the new project page. —Michael Z. 2006-10-19 19:02 Z

[edit] Linkless Georgian article Keipi

This article is currently orphaned and in need of links to other Georgian related articles. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. Agne 18:56, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Abkazia - independent republic?

რამე უნდა ვიღონოთ ხალხნო--Gnome(G) 21:13, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Georgia WikiProject

Please check out the discussion at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Proposals#Georgia_.28country.29 Chris 03:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Black Sea Fleet

Hi there (gamarjoba :). I wrote a subsection on Georgia with a little and old knowledge on the subject. Please improve. Cheers,AlexPU 09:50, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Banner

I replaced the plain flag with the waving one as a test to see if it looks better (and trimmed the text a bit). If there are any objections I'll revert. Or, suggestions for improvement are welcome too. - Alsandro · T · w:ka: Th · T 19:01, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Centralized discussion/Country of birth

Please check Wikipedia:Centralized discussion/Country of birth, it appears important Alex Bakharev (talk) 14:24, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Talk:Mingrelians

There's an ongoing debate there as to whether the Mingrelians can be classified as a subgroup within the Georgian ethnos or not. Please opine. --Kober^Talk 21:00, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

well. Georgians as I know were at the beginning composed of three peoples. people from kartli and eastern parts, lazs in southwestern parts (modern Turkey) and Kolkhs in western Georgia on the black sea coast (today mostly mengrelia.) but they fused into one nation during thousands of years. So I dont think that we should not separate them in anyway other then maybe mentioning from were they were decended. if several hundred years were enough to form nations such as Australians and Americans , I think in Georgia's case centuries will be enough too.--UltioUltionis (talk) 22:38, 5 April 2008 (UTC)