Talk:Gentlemen's club
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[edit] Article name
This article began life as "Gentlemen's Clubs" because that is what the clubs to which I belong call such clubs and because that is how Anthony Lejeune styles them. Similarly, private clubs exclusively for women (such as the New Cavendish Club) call themselves "Ladies' Clubs". --Theo (Talk) 19:17, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Just for awareness: googling gentlemen's.club site:uk finds 4300 articles, while gentleman's.club site:uk finds 4400. I believe and agree that the first spelling is the traditional one, but it's devolved over time. Globally, men's beats man's 73K to 43K. --Dhartung | Talk 23:16, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)
-
- I performed the same analysis before selecting the name (including varied apostrophe placements) and found a similarly even split but I did not analyse how many of the hits pertained to what were originally called 'gentlemen's clubs'. Google can be a bit of a blunt instrument for this kind of analysis. --Theo (Talk) 23:27, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)
[edit] English Gentlemen's Clubs, description of
I'm not sure it's correct for the disambiguation entry pointing to the UK variant to call these "Country Clubs". I say this because most of them are in cities, in fact usually London, and so they don't offer facilities which are usual for US Country Clubs (e.g. golf and so forth). --JamesYoungman (Talk) 21:30, 28 Aug 2005 (UTC)
- How should we describe them, then? Max Spades 21:49, 28 August 2005
-
- The current text is OK (has it been changed?). Otherwise, they could be described as "social and dining clubs for affluent or aristocratic men (and, sometimes, women)" --JamesYoungman (Talk) 23:36, 30 Aug 2005 (UTC)
- I have refined the description although I feel that it still implies that these are an English phenomenon. Many clubs of this kind now admit women and most now are outside the UK. Consider the University Club in Philadelphia, The Harvard Club in Boston and New York and many others around the world. —Theo (Talk) 16:13, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
- The current text is OK (has it been changed?). Otherwise, they could be described as "social and dining clubs for affluent or aristocratic men (and, sometimes, women)" --JamesYoungman (Talk) 23:36, 30 Aug 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Qualifications for membership of the Travellers' Club
Rule 6 of the club constitution, written in about 1814, states "That no person be considered eligible to the Travellers' Club, who shall not have travelled out of the British islands to a distance of at least 500 miles from London in a direct line." This quotation is given here [1]. An important point is the formation of the phrase British islands. Note that the word "island" is not capitalised and therefore in effect means "the islands of, or belonging to, the British". At the time the constitution was written Ireland was a British island, so the meaning is clear and the British islands in this context translate directly to the British Isles, meaning any island of the group, including the Isle of Man and such like. We need a piped link to British Isles from this term to clarify the original meaning. A link to British Islands is inappropriate; wrong in fact. This latter term originated in 1889 and now has a very specific meaning that excludes Ireland. Consequently a link to the Wikipedia article on the British Islands is erroneous. A link the British Isles, on the other hand, clarifies the meaning of the rule, precisely. The original author of the Travellers Club article got is slightly wrong when he capitalised "island". See the original article here [2]. CarterBar (talk) 14:50, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
-
- Have you references for this? Otherwise, it's really just Original Research. The quote says British Islands. There's nothing to suggest that this means British Isles.... It is just as easy to say that the original author meant Great Britain... In the absense of a reference, there is no basis for piping to British Isles. --Bardcom (talk) 23:46, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
- Not OR, just common sense. It obviously didn't mean British Islands, so what else could British islands (plural) mean? The author didn't say Great Britain, he said British islands (see the reference), which at that time included Ireland and all the others owned by Britain, but I've explained all this already. Anyway, the term clearly needs clarification, hence the link to British Isles. Alternatively we could have a footnote for the term, explaining the possible meanings - how about that? In the meantime I've reverted, just so that someone doesn't think the quote meant British Islands. CarterBar (talk) 10:46, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
- Hi Bardcom, yo've now got it redirecting to British Islands, which I'm sure you agree is wrong. So I'm going to write a footnote as suggested above, to explain the possible meaning of the term as far as the historical period is concerned. CarterBar (talk) 12:43, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
- Not OR, just common sense. It obviously didn't mean British Islands, so what else could British islands (plural) mean? The author didn't say Great Britain, he said British islands (see the reference), which at that time included Ireland and all the others owned by Britain, but I've explained all this already. Anyway, the term clearly needs clarification, hence the link to British Isles. Alternatively we could have a footnote for the term, explaining the possible meanings - how about that? In the meantime I've reverted, just so that someone doesn't think the quote meant British Islands. CarterBar (talk) 10:46, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
- Have you references for this? Otherwise, it's really just Original Research. The quote says British Islands. There's nothing to suggest that this means British Isles.... It is just as easy to say that the original author meant Great Britain... In the absense of a reference, there is no basis for piping to British Isles. --Bardcom (talk) 23:46, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
