Talk:Genovese crime family

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Contents

[edit] Naming

Shouldn't this be at Genovese family, per naming conventions? There's a page there with history (but never any significant content), so we'd need a sysop/admin to delete it first. But I won't apply for it to be moved this second because a) I don't know where to ask, and b) I want to give anyone a chance to justify it's current location. - IMSoP 20:04, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

I believe this should actually be at Genovese crime family as per the other crime family articles. A discussion for it can be found here. [1] 152.163.100.66 05:04, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Caporegime question

Can somebody clarify if caporegime=Underboss? If so, correct it on Costello's page & elsewhere if needed. And check the plural is caporegimi & N caporegimes?

And, y'know, I just don't get why Mob murders are being dignified as "assassinations". They're just murders, killings, hits... Trekphiler 07:17, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Plural for "caporegime" is again "caporegime", but you can use also "capiregime". In italian is exactly the same, because, as a "one word" caporegime is identic in the plural, but as the contraction of "capo" and "regime" (capo of regime) the plural will be for the word "capo" becoming "capi", so "capiregime". We use both. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.11.1.161 (talk • contribs) 04:33, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
Caporegime means captain or lieutenant, not underboss. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MZucker (talk • contribs) 20:15, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Premature end

This article needs sorting out as it seems to end abruptly with the departure of Frank Costello, and have barely anything at all on the family during the 1960s, 1970s or 1980s. If someone doesn't get there first I'll endeavour to sort it out when I get a chance. C i d 13:04, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] List missing

The "Bosses" list of the Genovese crime family is missing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.11.1.161 (talk • contribs) 04:28, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Genovese`s death

Genovese`s death is wrong in this article.. He was put in prison in 1959 and died in 1969(not 59)

It needs to be changes under: Drugs and the Genovese family and under: Bosses of the Genovese crime family Genoveses power ended in 1969, Tommy Eboli was given the family power before Genovese died, but I dont know if it was as early as 1959. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.4.33.137 (talk • contribs) 00:21, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Corrected. The page history shows that 212.4.33.137 was the one who changed it to 1959 on 15th Aug 2006. Clappingsimon talk 21:27, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Daniel Leo

All of the links in the articles for a Daniel Leo take you to a samoan rugby football player... This is not correct..and makes you wonder if Daniel Leo even exists in the Genovese Crime Family... ````(just an avid reader of wikipedia.) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.100.21.92 (talk) 04:01, 21 December 2006 (UTC).

About Daniel Leo: http://www.nysun.com/article/44363 Clutch Set 12:01, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Morello-Masseria-Valenti Conflict

This whole section needs to be reworked, who ever wrote it becomes rather defensive and his or her writing breaks down into petty argument with a non-existent foe. Jesta510 20:57, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Possible Unencyclopedic Tone

Rackets such as gambling, bookmaking and loansharking are a universal mainstay for all Families and are never neglected, but when the soldiers on the streets who do the debt collecting, muscle work and murders are not happy, there is a lack of trust and confidence in the Bosses leadership abilities and this is exactly what Genovese was trying to accomplish.

The tone to me suggests a story. Referring to "the soldiers on the streets" seems somewhat poetic to me. What do others think? Iain marcuson 01:40, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

There is definitely a mystical narrator here. Just to pick one sentence at random:
Gigante was paroled from Lewisburg Federal Penitentiary in Pennsylvania less than 5 years later in 1964 and was immediately promoted to Capo by Boss, Vito Genovese for his loyalty.
The first half of the sentence would be documented by the Lewisburg archives, but who is the fly on the wall in the second half of the sentence? The pell-mell flip-flopping between what is documented in court records and what is surmised about the internal relationships within the family, and motives behind those relationships, contributes to the feeling you're being told a story. MaxEnt 23:06, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Meeting with Maranzano

The author states that MAranzano and Bonanno met with Morello, Luciano and Masseria. Joe Bonanno's autobiography which is the only source for that meeting does not state Luciano was there, and to further complicat ematters, newspaper reports of the day have Luciano being in Europe with Legs Diamond when the meeting supposedly took place. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.86.145.97 (talk • contribs) 16:31, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Novella?

What has happened to this article? It's turned into a huge great piece of unreferenced prose that no-one in their right mind would want to read, concentrating on individual people rather than the family as a whole (remembering that each individual has their own page, this is not the place for such information).

There are links to the page within itself throughout. It's been battered.

It's going to have to be sorted out again and cut right down. Any volunteers? If not, I'll attempt it when I have time. C i d 14:43, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi. You're right, this length of this article has reached epidemic proportions. As a temporary fix to make the article usable by the casual reader, I've reverted it back to the last time it was a sensible length (this version from 29 July 2006), and added categories, etc. as appropriate.
I realise this is a somewhat drastic action, but in the article's current state of 104kB, I can't see how anyone could realistically copyedit it down to a sensible length. I certainly don't think anyone would have the patience! I think a more pragmatic approach is to start from (almost) scratch. Editors who are knowledgeable about the subject can re-add material piece by piece; I (and hopefully other experienced editors) can help format and copyedit it as appropriate.
If I've gone overboard here, then please say so. However, I don't think that simply reinstating the 104kB version would be a rational course of action at this point!
Regards, Oli Filth 23:30, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm glad I'm not the only one worried about the state of this piece. I think it's right to revert to an old version - however, it's possible that we may have gone back too far. The edit of [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Genovese_crime_family&oldid=68198316 7 August 2006 (from myself) was a complete rewrite of the article, as at that time I set about tidying up each of the Five Families articles.
I think it would be best to revert back to this version, instead of the older one which misses a lot of important/interesting information. However, I'm reluctant to make that change myself as I would face understandable accusations that I was reverting to my own piece for nefarious reasons rather than just trying to tidy things up.
Can someone compare the pieces from 29 July 2006 and 7 August 2006 and assess whether the latter version conforms to the required standard of quality? I am happy to go with the judgement of others, but as I say I don't think it's wise I revert to the old version I wrote myself. C i d 12:18, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
My one concern with that version is that the tone is starting to meander away from encyclopaedic. Phrases such as "to say the least", "before he could take his revenge", "The Oddfather" (as a section title), are (in my opinion) not completely appropriate. In the near future, I'll have a go at rewording this stuff, or if you have time, perhaps you could address it? If this is done, I have no objection to moving forward to that version, with one caveat:
It would be good if we could get some references for some of the key claims. A prominent example might be the sentence that starts "Depending on who was talking about it ...".
Oli Filth 20:29, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
It doesn't need to be cut down that much. Let's just change some of the dodgy parts. The H-Man2 16:58, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Ok on second thoughts maybe not but it could still be expanded. I'll work on it --The H-Man2 17:19, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Influential Current Members

I've deleted the entire "Influential Current Members" as a WP:BLP violation. All of these accusations need reliable sources. Corvus cornix 16:36, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Capos/Soldatos

This page contains speculative information about former Capos but almost nothing about current leadership. There are at least 8 Capos who are under 60 years old and they have yet to be convicted so there is almost no public information concerning them. This page should be looked at more carefully due to the unique nature of the subject matter concerning the code of silence and current activities. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gf8anonymous (talk • contribs) 06:51, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] An unsourced geocities page is hardly an authoritative source

I removed the entire section of "Current/Past Capos" due to the source "http://www.geocities.com/OrganizedCrimeSyndicates/GenoveseFamily.html"

This could easily be a made-up source as no credentials are required for a geocities page.

This page contains speculative information about former Capos but almost nothing about current leadership. There are at least 8 Capos who are under 60 years old and they have yet to be convicted so there is almost no public information concerning them. This page should be looked at more carefully due to the unique nature of the subject matter concerning the code of silence and current activities. -gf8anonymous

I agree with you there so it's prudent to remove the entire section.

--Terra980 (talk) 07:35, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Charlir91 unexplained edits

-Charlir91 [Charlir91]

Why do you keep reverting and adding the unsourced Geocities Page information whilst not providing an explanation? Tikidoll9 (talk) 03:11, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Third opinion

A Geocities page is certainly not acceptable source material for living persons, and not generally permissable at all. This article is in desperate need of better sourcing in general. The current sources used should be reviewed for appropriateness and reliability. Vassyana (talk) 06:05, 10 April 2008 (UTC) You can help too by providing a third opinion. RfC and editor review could also always use a few extra voices!