Talk:Genetic sexual attraction

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Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on 14 November. The result of the discussion was Keep.

Should there be some mention of Jaime and Cersei Lannister from A Song of Ice and Fire, or does this only apply to reunions?

Seriously, was this written by obsessed Star Wars fans? :P

Does this article mean that siblings who meet late in life are more likely to find each other attractive than two random people? Meelar 17:32, 28 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Ahah! So THAT explains Luke & Leia! ;) Seriously, I recently saw an interview where Lucas invoked this very phenomenon (though not in these exact words) to explain that situation. If only I could find that text: it would be well worth quoting here, if not in the article itself. --Iustinus 07:01, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Wow. This is so weird. I just put that very thing about Luke and Leia into the article, and I hadn't even read this discussion page yet! What a coincidence, I must say. ‡ Jarlaxle June 30, 2005 08:39 (UTC)


This article should be either deleted or edited. GSA does not seem to have much support other than the work of one crank. GSA is not mentioned in scientific literature and thus it should be made clear that GSA is a purported phenomenon by a specific author.Exeunt 04:17, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

I disagree. Even though the attraction is psychological (which, to be fair, would mean neurological in a physicalist construction), it is rooted in genetic commonality. It doesn't have to be derived directly from nucleic acids to be called "genetic." The phenomenon may not have a lot of studies behind it, but it's worth explaining, particularly for those who have gone through a form of it, or know someone who has. Ventifax 22:33, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
You're disagreeing with something entirely different than the point raised by Exeunt. If the existence of this named "phenomenon" is mainly promoted by a vocal individual or minority, that fact needs to be pointed out in the article. --Neurophyre(talk) 15:19, 11 November 2006 (UTC)


GSA is a real phenomenon, which is worthy of defining at the very least. 2005-11-06

I agree, even if it is only experienced by few, to them the phenomenon is clearly very real and very powerful, and is thus worthy of a mention. Not having experienced it oneself or knowing someone who has, does not mean it does not exist. There are many phenomena we do not understand fully, eg few people are truly psychic, but a few are; few people can divine water, but a few truly can. The fact that it is only experienced by a few does not diminish its reality. Because we understand these phenomena so poorly, we are really not qualified to say with any certainty what precisely their origin is - I think heredity may well play a role in many. And I believe we are born with some ancestral imprints beyond just the physical. I also wonder if this phenomenon is not more common than we think and perhaps applies to cousins, distant enough so we are unaware of the link....??? I happened to fall in love and marry someone towards whom I experienced an extremely strong physical attraction, and vice versa, from the moment we met. Something about him was very 'familiar' and somehow irresistable. I left a partner and changed my world to be with him. Years later I became interested in genealogy and discovered that we are 6th cousins. You may say 6th cousins are not 'close relatives' and this may not apply - but I suspect a very similar situation did apply, and in time science may discover that people have different susceptibilities to this and that in some cases this phenomena extends much wider than just a one generation gap.12:09, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Real or not, I am not aware of any evidence that supports the idea that GSA is genetic in origin, rather than psychological. Those cases most cited involve reunions between long-separated people who recently learned they are close relatives, a highly emotional circumstance to say the least (doubly so when you consider the strong and prolonged sense of loss and desire for reunion that often surrounds adoption). If you were to put two unrelated people together and tell them they are long-separated relatives, might "genetic" sexual attraction not manifest in them? If the fiction were convincing enough, I bet it would work. And frankly, the phenomena of separated-relative romance in pop culture has little to do with reality and everything to do with emotionally/metaphorically-laden storylines. 2005-11-08

Contents

[edit] Cleanup

A question to whoever put this template to the article: which part exatctly requires cleanup? To me, it looks quite normal. --Koveras 20:21, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, for a start, it appears to completely ignore the points raised in the discussion above; multiple sources before and against should be cited, and cites to more recent research found, if possible. References for any credible evidence for links to phenotypic matching, kin recognition and pheromones would be good too.

-- Karada 21:54, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

  • Removed mention of Angel Sanctuary from the "In Pop Culture" section. While it contains incest, it does not contain GSA (Setsuna and Sara are siblings who fall in love, but they were raised together).
    • More of this needs to be done. Several of the works in (what amounts to a giant trivia section) cite examples of incest that do not involve long-separated relatives. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.175.0.124 (talk) 01:48, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Too bad I missed the vote

This nonsense article needs to be deleted, despite the recent vote. To summarize, you are attracted to people with visual and behavioral similarities, so by extension you will be attracted to your relatives if not socialized otherwise. This is a nothing, nonsense, exercise in mental masturbation. There is a great articel on sexual attraction, and a good one on the Westermarck effect. Combining the information in the two articles and finding a group where such a thing could occur does not merit the creation of an article.

Well for example, 'inbreeding' is the mere coincidence of genetically related organisms-- which can be found everywhere-- and the production of offspring-- which can also be found everywhere. Why do we need a term for or article on 'inbreeding' when we already have terms and articles on consanguinity and breeding? Similarly, there're zillions of people attracted to women, and zillions of women-- why do we need a term or article 'lesbian'? There may or may not be any meaningful reality to GSA, but you've not given a good reason to delete the article.
I think it's worth considering deleting all articles that are 'yucky' and/or involve social consequences of biological phenomena. I also think such reflection would result in the decision not to delete them.--Enantiodromos (talk) 22:47, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] But isn't it always said..

That people are more attracted to people genetically different from them, so as to promote healthier offspring with a more varied immune system? Everything I've read on sexual attraction supports that. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.122.63.142 (talk) 16:18, 6 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Um...

Is there some reason Oedipus isn't listed? The classic case, surely (no pun intended). Tualha (Talk) 01:20, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GSA

The reason GSA may occur is because men and women are so different. Homosexual GSA is virtually unheard of, because being both hormonally and genetically close, two brothers meeting for the first time will bond immediately. However, with siblings or parents of the opposite gender, a need to bond may be created though not always, because of so many years spent apart. Children of the opposite sex who grow up together do not feel attracted to one another largely because enough time exists to get past the differences between men and women. Its like this; because men are men, a man does not need to have sex with another man to bond with him on a deep level. Men have so much in common with each other already, a need for deep hormonal bonding is not necessary, hence the relative rarity of homosexuals in all societies. The differences between men and women though dictate that for a man and woman to know each other on a deep level without intimacy, they have to spend many years together, crucially, the formative years. Because parents or siblings of the opposite sex who meet as adults never bonded, and because the fastest way adults bond is sexually, an overpowering need to bond is expressed in a sexual way. The reason GSA is more common with siblings, is because siblings of the opposite sex are not as close to each other, as they are to their mother. The reason it is more common with fathers and daughters, than with mothers and sons, is because men do not have anywhere near the same level of empathic response as women do. Whereas a woman can bond, nonsexually, with her son almost right away, the same can not be said for a man. GSA is rooted, not so much in sexual, physical attraction, but from a need to bond. There is no need if the sibling is of the same gender, because men are similar to men, and women are similar to women, however when differences exist between genders, time has to be taken to get to know that person of the opposite gender to get past those differences. The fastest way to get past them, tragically enough, is sexually. Tragic, considering the social taboo. Even though rare among mothers and sons, the danger is very real. I think more information should be researched and published on the subject; because of the overturn of sexual mores in the late 1960's, the number of illegitimate children fathered by men has become incalculable. Any man in a woman's life, may be a father and not know it. Accidents happening, people meeting half-siblings, is a ticking time bomb waiting to explode.

No; this article should not be deleted. The sheer number of illegitimate births out there dictate that some form of therapy or treatment regarding this must be developed, as very little research exists. The only reputable specialist is a respected Psychiatrist based in London, whose work has not been taken seriously because of the "yuck" factor. The "yuck" factor is the unprofessional response by Intelligentsia who react with a "yuck" whenever they feel a particular field of scientific research would be too "gross" to seriously consider. Apparently the social taboos of ANY kind of incest, even when the people did not even grow up together, will go very high. From what I have seen in adoption websites, GSA will affect up to 90% siblings of the opposite sex, roughly 5% of siblings of the same sex, though almost always homosexual, and if its father/daughter, the numbers can be roughly 50 to 60%. If its mother/son, it stands at the lowest at about 10 to 20%. I personally atribute that low number to the female empathic response. There could also be a link to breast feeding, which is said saturate the person with hormones or something.

If there is anything wrong with the article itself, is that its too small. It could also use, with the apropriate permission, the input of a Psychologist or two. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.63.78.51 (talk) 06:58, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Is this all fiction?

I wouldn't delete the page: the topic exists and needs to be treated. In this article, the theoretical explanations sound reasonable enough. If the references are complete, then I'd let it go at that.

My main criticism is that all the examples are fictitious. The two "real" examples are uncorroborated and are likely to be urban myths. This may be an effect that is less significant than the article states. Carl Ponder (talk) 09:43, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, on UK TV on Thursday, 12th June, on ITV at 9pm, there's going to be a documentary on genetic sexual attraction (which is covered under the name of "Brothers and Sisters in Love"). They're gonna use a german couple (who's names I've forgotten), and about their experiences with this, so you could list them as examples? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.145.177.104 (talk) 00:44, 8 June 2008 (UTC)