Talk:Genesis P-Orridge

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[edit] Timeline?

Hey, the article says that Megson was born in 1950, but later states 'In 1965, while attending Hull University, Neil subsumed himself into the character of Genesis P-Orridge'. This suggests that Megson was attending university by the age of 15 - if true, a quite unusual circumstance that bears further explanation. If untrue, we could do with finding out the correct dates. SpaceyHopper 16:44, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Check: [[1]]

[edit] Heavy intro

Let's assume I don't have the faintest clue who Genesis P-Orridge is (true), then the first paragraph still leaves me a bit in the dark afer reading: what does

a manipulator of words and sound, a performance artist, in the truest sense, an exile, a returnee and advocate of various counterculture ideas, sacrificing most comfortable notions of identity, gender and even DNA

mean, exactly? It sounds like fan praise of those "in the know", but it just confuses me. How can anyone "sacrifice the comforable notion of DNA", for example? Even if you explain this in the remainder of the article, you shouldn't just dump it on the reader in the beginning. Keep it simple in the intro.

Similarly for

His former wife and PTV collaborator, Paula, is no longer mentioned in liner notes of any of the reissues of the music or writings since the mid-1990s. Sometimes this cropping is extremely awkward for those familiar the 12 years of PTV that Paula was so much a part of. This is certainly a rewriting of history but perhaps it's also out of respect for peoples' private lives.

I'm still in the intro here. I don't understand what the relevance is at this point. Also, I'm wondering what the background is of mentioning that it's "extremely awkward for those familiar..." or "certainly a rewriting of history but out of respect for people's private lives..." Is this based on quotes by anyone? Do we have them? Are we summarizing other facts? Which ones?

Finally, does the fifth section really need to have such a long title? Couldn't you call it "Later developments" or something like that and break it into subsections?

The article looks like fascinating stuff, incidentally. I'm guessing this might end up in the distinguished company of Wikipedia:Unusual articles. Keep up the good work. JRM 01:50, 2004 Dec 6 (UTC)

  • These are good points. I see the error in my ways and do appreciate, very much, your feedback. Alecw

[edit] John C. Lilly's breast implants?

Maybe I'm just ignorant about John Lilly, but I haven't found any reference that says that he had gotten breast implants. Hence, why the "...like John C. Lilly before him" mention? Anarchivist | Talk 16:42, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

The reference was unnecessary for a variety of reasons, I've since killed it. :bloodofox: 14:10, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] POV and grammar issues.

I really like this article. Theres certainly alot of love put into it. However, Im finding , that perhaps its a little uncritical and perhaps would do well if someone (who isnt as gramatically impaired as I!!) had a look over it and gave it a clean up. It strikes me that the principle issues are grammar, and perhaps the POV issues. It just needs a little more detachment. -Duck monster

[edit] Unacceptably Hagiographic article

This article was obviously heavily written by a huge ptv fan. The problem is almost any attempt to do a single en masse edit to fix it will inevitably be reverted because its almost not possible to write a legitamite article about GPO that is the length of the current article. It would appear unseemly that so much work would be getting deleted. So I'm posting this here to get everyone to agree that this article needs to be cleaned up in a major way.

I have a few queries about this piece-

  • "These people cut up and re-arranged reality" - this seems like a personal interpretation of artistic intent. If P-Orridge claimed that this was the intent of his work, it should perhaps state that this is the case.
  • "There was Neil Megson, who was born and raised" - I think "Neil Megson was born and raised" would sound better, but I'm not sure if there's some reasoning for "There was".
  • "A-choo" - at the end of 'Early Life'. I'm not sure what this means.
  • P-Orridge's prison sentence is mentioned, but I think it needs further explanation.
  • "it's not clear whether Neil died somewhere along the line" - I think this needs a little more explanation that we're talking about the identity Neil and not the physical Neil.
  • More information is needed on his "political exile". Cnwb 23:07, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • I'm addressing your very valid concerns. Many thanks. Alecw
I've got a feeling that this was written by his first wife. I've deleted some of the merciless flak but without flak, there's almost nothing left.
There is a lot of very pro P-Orridge POV. I've removed the most egregious eaxample, but there is a lot more to do, even at the expense of there being almost nothing left. --Fire Star 火星 17:35, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I've had a go at tidying up some of the article. Too much still read like a fan/reviewer or someone speculating - GPO's career is remarkable enough without all the hyperbole - or mythmaking that it attracts.

Rrose Selavy (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 14:30, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

I removed the "GPO was the last person to speak to Curtis" reference . It seems possibly more appropriate for the Ian Curis article , if at all but Without further corroboration, which is impossible, it seems a mix of trivia and legend making by association and little to do with the rest of the section and GPO's career..

Rrose Selavy (talk) 20:22, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Categories: Fluxus/Transgender and transsexual musicians

I'm very seriously considering doing a massive editing job on this. Before I attempt this, there are two things that I have issue with in the categories section:

The first one is Fluxus. I've read enumerable interviews with the subject and the only times that Fluxus was mentioned it was derogatory.

Secondly, the transgender thing. I read an interview where the subject talks about the breast implants and the explanation has absolutely nothing to do with "being a woman trapped in a man's body" or anything remotely typical of a transgender kind of situation. The hyperlink: "Pandrogenous" redirects to "Transitioning (transgender)". It strikes me as an attempt to button-hole the subject's behavior into something more palatable.

Neither of these category targets are specifically mentioned in the text. The Fluxus article lists the subject among many others on a lengthy list, without further comment. If no one objects, I plan to remove those two categories in the near future.

Steve Lowther 08:39, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Okay, no objection. No encouragement either...I went ahead and did what I proposed above. I also tweaked the article a bit, removed a lot of the links in the text (some was a bit excessive) tried to keep the Neil and Genesis names consistent with the chronology...a few minor adjustments in language just to improve the tone. I only worked on the text part way into the section 1971 to 1976. I'll take another crack at it later.

Steve Lowther 11:12, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

I think if you actually read the articles on Fluxus and transgender you would realize that both apply to GP-O, and neither of them are offensive.75.49.251.170 (talk) 08:55, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Factual Mistakes??

The article states: "Throbbing Gristle was formed 18 October 1976 at the ICA as a four-piece rock band

The first Throbbing Gristle performance was at the Air Gallery in London on July 6, 1976."

The band was formed in October 1976 but played its first concert three months earlier in July 1976?? What kind of nonsense is this? It not nonsense you fucking nimrod, the band could have played a free form concert and than officially formed in 1976. Suck on that, low iq boy. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.115.162.248 (talk) 19:32, August 22, 2007 (UTC)

The statement "The IR logo was a faded, high-contrast black-and-white photograph of Auschwitz's main ovens" is actually incorrect. This was long thought to be the case but is in fact an exterior photograph of the Tate Modern Art Gallery in London, England. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Almightybooblikon (talk • contribs) 21:38, 17 December 2007 (UTC)


No, it is in fact true that the original Industrial Records logo is a photo of the main oven at Auschwitz. The confusion arose because, when the reformed Throbbing Gristle performed at the Tate Modern in 2007, all the advertising featured an updated Industrial Records logo, using an image of the gallery treated to look the same as the original Auschwitz log as a satirical visual gag just for this one-off event.D. Molan's book "Sympathy for the Devil: Art and Rock and Roll Since 1967" displays the two versions alongside each other for comparison. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JakeC70 (talk • contribs) 16:34, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Death

Source: http://www.genesisp-orridge.com/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.226.212.94 (talk) 23:18, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Genesis Breyer P-Orridge and her reactivated Psychic TV aka PTV3 are terribly sad to announce the cancellation of their November North American tour dates. This decision is entirely due to the unexpected passing of band member Lady Jaye Breyer P-Orridge.

Genesis P would seem to still be alive. The band member "Lady Jaye" seems to have died. / edg ☺ ★ 00:00, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Given that this is Wikipedia an open forum which seeks historical truth as we know it; I feel the need to understand where the information about Lady Jaye's passing is coming from.Has there been an official statement released by her parents? Is it official how she actually died or are we taking it on the word of PTV3 and co?20:05, 15 October 2007 (UTC)~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zietthis (talk • contribs)

Wikipedia is not an "open forum", and its standard is verifiability, not truth. http://www.genesisp-orridge.com/ is the source used for this information. Usually, band/artist sites are considered reasonable sources on the death of a band member, but if you feel a need to pursue this further, please share what you find. / edg ☺ ★ 15:42, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

She was more than a "band member" - she was also his wife and as such, noting her death here is unquestionably appropriate to the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JakeC70 (talk • contribs) 16:50, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Birth year?

Two are listed. Which is it?! Amber388 (talk) 20:48, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] TOPY

Surely some mention of the influence Genesis had in Thee Temple ov Psychick Youth should be in the article? As a founding member s/he is integral to the founding and continued ethos of the TOPY network. - Al.locke (talk) 04:05, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I just read the article for the first time, and that was my thought. It's a huge omission.KD Tries Again (talk) 19:24, 25 March 2008 (UTC)KD Tries Again