Talk:Genealogy of the IRA
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[edit] Do not attempt...
Please do not attempt to edit the adjoining article if you are not familiar with such charts. suggest that any suggestions on how to improve or enhance the tree be posted here and I'll incorporate them. Thanks--Damac 14:34, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Excellent
This is an excellent aid to understanding. Nice job. Palmiro 13:12, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Antecedents
Presumably you plan to include the Irish Republican Brotherhood and the Irish Citizen Army in the antecedents.
- IRB - no, because it was not involved in setting up the IV (but did take it over)
- ICA - again, no. The ICA was a completely seperate organisation, which never merged with the IV. --Damac 14:34, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Proportions
It would be great if you could put some mumbers to the merging and separating components, but I suppose only the Gardaí Special Branch know that!
- Some info is available but this is best included in the relevant articles. --Damac 14:34, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Linking
Should the table also link to the now-separate article on the IRA between the Treaty split and the Provo-Sticky split? Palmiro 11:27, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
Done.--Damac 05:11, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
[edit] "To present"
Are the provos really considered present? I don't think they properly disbanded, but you know... they did tell all their groups to give up armed violence. Pauric 20:49, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Image
This turned up. Unclickable but tidy --Henrygb 01:06, 29 September 2006 (UTC) 
[edit] Family Tree template
Perhaps we can re-format the tree using the Family Tree templates? I'll give it a go...
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Irish Volunteers (1913-1914) |
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National Volunteers (1914-?) |
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Irish Volunteers (1914-1917) |
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Irish Republican Army (1917-1922) |
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(Pro-Treaty) IRA (1922-?) |
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(Anti-Treaty) IRA |
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National Army |
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GHQ |
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Executive |
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Irish Defence Forces (?-present) |
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IRA |
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Republican Congress (1934-1936) |
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Saor Uladh (1955) |
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Saor Éire (1967-1975) (1967-1975) |
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Official IRA |
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Provisional IRA |
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Irish National Liberation Army (See seperate genealogy) |
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Continuity IRA |
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Official Republican Movement |
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Real IRA |
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- I'd be all for this. Looks better than the current thing, and looks easier to work with. -- Pauric (talk-contributions) 21:51, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
- As the person who started the article, I give my full support.--Damac 22:39, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
- I've replaced it now, and put the old one below for archival purposes. Erin Go Braghtalk 08:29, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
- I'd be all for this. Looks better than the current thing, and looks easier to work with. -- Pauric (talk-contributions) 21:51, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Old Tree
Irish Volunteers (1913) | | splits in 1914 |¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯| National Volunteers Irish Volunteers | | Irish Republican Army (IRA) c. 1917 | | splits in 1922 |¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯| (Pro-Treaty) IRA (Anti-Treaty) IRA | / \ | / \ National Army GHQ Executive | \ / | \ / Irish Defence Forces IRA ↓ | ↓ | TO PRESENT splits in 1934 |¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯| IRA Republican Congress | (†1936) |___ | \ | Saor Uladh (1955) |___ | \ | Saor Éire (1968) | splits in 1969 |¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯| Official IRA Provisional IRA | | | | splits in 1974 | |¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯| | Official IRA Irish National Liberation Army | | | | | | | | (see separate genealogy) | |__ splits in 1986 | \ |¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯| | Official Republican Movement Provisional IRA Continuity IRA | (c. 1997) | | ↓ | ↓ ↓ | ↓ TO PRESENT splits in 1997 TO PRESENT (Never |¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯| formally Provisional IRA Real IRA disbanded) (2005) | ↓ ↓ TO PRESENT
[edit] ICA & IRB again
Something to consider is that many ICA men did go one to join the IRA after it formed in 1917. Perhaps we could use the marriage symbol to symbolise that the IRA was a mix of (mostly) Volunteers, but also partly ICA folks? James Connolly was an ICA man, after all; I think they deserve mention here. As well, I've been thinking that there's got to be a way to include the IRB and maybe the Fenian Brotherhood in this chart. Maybe not as direct ancestors, but perhaps just floating above there? Erin Go Braghtalk 08:57, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
-
- Regardless of whether ICA people went on to join the IRA, the main thing to consider is that the ICA continued to exist as a seperate organsation until the 1930s. There was never a real amalgamation or split from one to join the other. Therefore I don't think the ICA should be mentioned, neither should the IRB. The IRA and IRB are not synonymous.--Damac 10:51, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
- Fair enough. I guess in the sense of direct flow from one to another, you're right. I'm just trying to figure out where I can paint a complete picture of Militant Irish Republican organizations. Erin Go Braghtalk 08:18, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
- Regardless of whether ICA people went on to join the IRA, the main thing to consider is that the ICA continued to exist as a seperate organsation until the 1930s. There was never a real amalgamation or split from one to join the other. Therefore I don't think the ICA should be mentioned, neither should the IRB. The IRA and IRB are not synonymous.--Damac 10:51, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] National Army / IDF
The Irish Defence Forces article has a history section which says that:
- The Defence Forces trace their origins to the Irish Volunteers founded in 1913. This organisation was succeeded in 1919 by the Irish Republican Army (IRA), the guerrilla organisation that fought the Anglo-Irish War against the government of the United Kingdom which is more popularly known as the War of Independence. Shortly after the creation of the Irish Free State in 1922, the IRA was officially succeeded by the modern Defence Forces.
Should this be displayed on the chart, or is the artilce wrong? Erin Go Braghtalk 08:29, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
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- The chart clearly shows that the Irish Army is descended from the IRA. Perhaps the chart should reflect the overwhelming majority view of the Irish people that the Irish Army is the rightful and sole descendant of the IRA and that the other organisations are meer usurpers.--Damac 08:50, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Genealogy of the INLA
It says in the diagram "See seperate genealogy" for the INLA, but I can't find such a thing anywhere? Has it disappeared or has it not been compiled yet. I'm not being pushy, I appreciate the effort been put in here and the diagram really is very good - I was just asking out of interest ;-) Riotboy81 16:55, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
