Talk:Gene Wolfe

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Contents

[edit] How to say that Wolfe writes for rereaders

"While the casual reader won't detect the unreliablility of the narrator and may become quite confused, the careful reader can find a deeper layer of the story. Therefore, it might be said that Wolfe does not write for readers, but for re-readers."

There's a useful insight buried in there but it really needs to be reworded more clearly, preferably by someone who has some experience in literary criticism. Lee M 01:47, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)
(My definition of good literature is that which can be read by an educated reader, and reread with increased pleasure. -- Gene Wolfe)
A source for the quote above appears to be this interview. We should probably rewrite the unclear sentence above as an introduction to this quote. --Jim Henry 16:15, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I've taken a whack at rewriting as suggested here. I'm not totally happy with it but I think it does the job better than before, and I hope I've also brought it a bit more in line with the NPOV guideline. (I also rephrased the introduction of the "unreliable narrator" concept a bit.)

[edit] Obviousness of Catholic influence

I've removed the phrase "(though not straightforwardly obvious)" in discussion of Catholic influence. From discussions I have seen of Wolfe's work, his use of the Catholic sacraments is one of the first things readers notice about his "solar" work. Use of Christian allegory is so strong a part of his writing that at least one recent critic (Wright) has tried to discount it as a device intend to mislead the reader from the real story. Crculver 14:40, 13 May 2004 (UTC)

It wasn't terribly obvious to me the first time I read them (except in Return to the Whorl, which has a scene than which a more obvious eucharistic allusion is hardly imaginable). I was not Catholic yet when I first read the New Sun and Long Sun. How obvious it is probably depends on how intimately familiar you are with Catholic theology, sacramental life, history, etc., how mature you are when you read the books for the first time, etc. --Jim Henry 16:15, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Needs a spoiler warning, badly

Template:Spoiler-blank

The fact that New Sun is set in a distant future is itself a fact that is only revealed over the course of the first book.

The fact that Long Sun is set in a starship is deliberately concealed for half of the series. (Discerning readers can spot some "teaser" facts, but the observation that everybody is inside a cylindrical ship intended for colonization is not discussed openly until the third book.)

Discovering these points is large part of the enjoyment of reading Wolfe's best works. Don't give them way with no warning.

  • If you read the dust jacket of Nightside the Long Sun, it says right there the Whorl is a generation starship sent out from Urth. Wolfe obviously didn't think that would spoil the series. As for the setting of the Book of the New Sun, it's obvious within the first three chapters that it is the future of our world. I object to the spoiler warning. Also, please create an account and sign your entries. Talking to an anonymous IP address, especially one who doesn't sign his entries, is impersonal and occasionally confusing. Crculver 03:12, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Wolfe is not necessarily in control of what the marketing department put on his dust jackets of his books. I second the motion to add spoiler warnings. Though, to be sure, the books are quite enjoyable even if these basic cosmological surprises are spoiled for you (as they were for me by comments I had read in reviews, etc. before reading them). --Jim Henry 16:15, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I agree with the motion towards a spoiler warning- it doesn't detract from the entry, & personally, the dawning realization that the Matachin Tower was a derelict spaceship & that this wasn't a work of fantasy but rather SF was half the fun.m:. 16:45, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hidden Stories and Easter Eggs

Added a section describing how Wolfe will bury clues very early in the text by using an example of the out-of-season morning glories in Free Live Free. There's plenty of other stuff that could be added, such as the thematic model: Free Live Free borrows from the Wizard of Oz. Wolfe also uses studies or sketches in short stories that he will flesh out into full books later; Wolfe wrote a short story called Changeling which is a precursor in some ways to Peace. How much of this is "giving it away?" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.202.127.187 (talk) 02:46, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Unreliable Narrator

"Wolfe frequently -- perhaps always -- creates an unreliable narrator to tell his stories." revised to "Wolfe frequently creates an unreliable narrator to tell his stories." His book Free Live Free is told from the third person, without an unreliable narrator. --Dd42 21:52, May 2, 2005 (UTC)

That is true, but the omnsicient narrator doesn't tell you everything necesary anyway. So in 'Free' it is not so much 'unreliable' as 'recalcitrant'. Remember how the whole time travel thing had to be pieced together by the reader? It omitted many details in its rendition. So I personally would have changed it from 'frequently' to 'usually'. --maru 22:07, 2 May 2005 (UTC)
I finished 'Free' a few days ago, and, in the American paperback edition at least, it's made explicitly clear that it's time travel. So, I'll leave it as it is, unless anyone has an objection. --Dd42 19:23, May 8, 2005 (UTC)
On a similar note, let us consider this quote from the article: 'or is not particularly intelligent (There Are Doors)'. TAD is also written in the third person and, although the protagonist is certainly psychologically unsound, I can't think of any events in the book that would illustrate a lack of intelligence (at least not so that it would effect the narration). flip 05:06, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Not Impartial

This page should be reviewed for for it's impartiality.

I just re-read it and can't find any POV or partiality problems. Can you point out specifics? --Jim Henry 13:23, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
I agree. The praises all appear to be sourced. --maru (talk) contribs 14:54, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
As above:

"Controversial material of any kind that is unsourced ... "

Like Gene Wolf or not, just reading a few pages from one of his books make it quite un-controversial that he's among the best authors ever. 21 March 2007 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.237.74.66 (talk) 16:45, 21 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] "Most Overrated And Underrated Science Fiction Writers"

Anyone the originator of the underrated/overrated quote? Can anyone confirm or deny? -mordicai. 12:35, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

I cannot yet confirm it, because the anon apparently is wrong: it is a magazine article, and not a book (despite the existence of some sort of collection); see http://www.urth.net/urth/archives/v0026/0039.shtml. -- Gwern (contribs) 14:19, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Argh! That urth.net thing ALMOST gets me to the root; the latter bit especially: "Imagine a Star Wars--style space opera penned by G.K. Chesterton in the throes of a religious conversion." That is used as a blurb on one of the editions I have of SOMETHING, I'm certain, but it isn't the Orb New Sun, New Urth, Long Sun, or Latro collections (I just eyeballed them here at the bookstore where I work). I'll have to check my own collection when I get home tonight, otherwise it is going to drive me nuts. -mordicai. 18:38, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Thank goodness for interlibrary loans, eh? --Gwern (contribs) 23:15, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
Heck, this bookstore gig gets me my books for free, so I've just been buying them as I read them. Thanks for reminding me about this thread though-- predictably, I forgot completely once I did get home. The blurb IS on the fly-leaf of the Orb Short Sun series, though it just attributes it to American Heritage. I think a explanatory intro should be enough for the statement, yes? -mordicai. 16:05, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
Look at me running behind schedule; If I'd read the windows in the correct order after clicking them open, I'd've seen that you were already successful in your endevour. Kudos to you. -mordicai. 16:07, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
The many blessings and curses of a tabbed browser, eh? --Gwern (contribs) 16:13, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fictional books

Could somebody who knows Wolfe well take a look at the list of fictional books that appear in his works? Somebody added a bunch of nonsense items -- I think I removed them all but if one of you experts could take a look that would be great. --Bookgrrl 02:18, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I've cleaned it up a bit, I think is is correct now. Tomgreeny 17:49, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] External link

I found "Paul Duggan's extensive website" anything but extensive. One good interview, a handful of brief articles, and the rest external links (a lot of them broken) and links to amazon.com pages to buy Gene Wolfe books. --Clavicorn 20:55, 16 March 2007 (UTC)