Talk:Gene R. Cook

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[edit] Mick Jagger incident

The whole Mick Jagger section seems a little... un-necessary and lame to me. The conversation from his side is obviously unsubstantiated as is the letter to the editor. Anybody else have an opinion? If I don't here back in a while I'll probably just junk it. Doesn't seem to me like either side of the story is within the realms of WP:PROVEIT. "The burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material. All quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged should be attributed to a reliable, published source using an inline citation. The source should be cited clearly and precisely to enable readers to find the text that supports the article content in question." Certainly doesn't seem like a reliable, published 3rd party source anyway. Phuff 05:41, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

It's not included to demonstrate it's truth. It's there to demonstrate that Cook claims it happened. It's simple to prove that Cook claims it happens. Whether it actually happened or not is not the point. The sad truth is that he is more notable for making this claim than anything else included in the article, as a simple google search will demonstrate. Not surprisingly, there's little on Jagger's side as to whether it happened or not.

Cook currently sells the audio to this speech under the audio CD title "13 Lines of Defense: A Guide for Clean Living", ISBN 1590386736. I have no problem with the removal of the claim from Jagger's PR person that it never happened (the source is iffy), but there's more than ample sources that can be provided that Cook claims this happens, and the claim is notable w.r.t. this individual. Snocrates 06:35, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

I see where you're coming from. The Jagger story does seem like a pretty important deal based on googling. WP:PROVEIT has some very specific thoughts on these kinds of situations. Self-reported information (like Cook's stories about his own experiences) can be included, but only when they're not about a third-party or don't make contentious claims (which these kinds of claims kind of are on the face of them, and about a third party (Mick Jagger), no less). Additionally, the other side of the story should also be "a reliable, third party source" which I don't think the anonymous e-mail to the editor of Utah Lighthouse Ministries is. Since we certainly can't have the opposing viewpoint on the story based on the ULM reference, I don't think it would be particularly fair to have a section based on just Cook's side of the story which is sort of bagging on Mick Jagger. But, fairness to both sides in that case (just removing ULM) notwithstanding, I think we're pretty much required to delete based on WP:PROVEIT anyway, and I'll do so in a few more hours to give you or someone else a chance to reply or add reliable third-party sources before deletion. Phuff 14:58, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

I understand and agree, based on your explanation and my reading of the guidelines. Snocrates 21:05, 29 October 2007 (UTC)