Talk:Gelo

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article incorporates text from the Encyclopædia Britannica Eleventh Edition, now in the public domain.

This article is within the scope of the following WikiProjects:

WikiProject Biography     (Rated Start-Class) This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page. Biography Portal Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale. [FAQ] Sicily WikiProject (Rated Start-Class) Sicily Portal This article is supported by the Sicily WikiProject, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Sicily on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can visit the Project Page, where you can join the project, see a list of open tasks, and join in discussions on the project's talk page. Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the assessment scale. (If you rated the article please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.) Low This article has been rated as Low-Priority on the priority scale. Military history WikiProject     (Rated Start-Class) This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of open tasks and regional and topical task forces. To use this banner, please see the full instructions. Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale. Additional information and associated task forces: This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-Class status: Referencing and citation: not checked Coverage and accuracy: not checked Structure: not checked Grammar: not checked Supporting materials: not checked To fill out this checklist, please add the following to the template call: <!-- B-Class-1. It is suitably referenced, and all major points have appropriate inline citations. --> |B-Class-1=yes/no <!-- B-Class-2. It reasonably covers the topic, and does not contain obvious omissions or inaccuracies. --> |B-Class-2=yes/no <!-- B-Class-3. It has a defined structure, including a lead section and one or more sections of content. --> |B-Class-3=yes/no <!-- B-Class-4. It is free from major grammatical errors. --> |B-Class-4=yes/no <!-- B-Class-5. It contains appropriate supporting materials, such as an infobox, images, or diagrams. --> |B-Class-5=yes/no This article is not currently associated with a task force. To tag it for one or more task forces, please add the task force codes from the template instructions to the template call. WikiProject Greece      (Rated Start-Class) Greece Portal This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Greece, an attempt to expand, improve and standardize the content and structure of articles related to Greece. If you would like to participate, you can improve Gelo, or sign up and contribute in a wider array of articles like those on our to do list. If you have any questions, please consult the FAQ. Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale. (comments) Low This article has been rated as a Low priority article Additional information: This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-Class status: Referencing and citation: not checked Coverage and accuracy: not checked Structure: not checked Grammar: not checked Supporting materials: not checked

[edit] Gelon

A legendary Scythian city, the northernmost Greek colony. Mentioned by Herodot in the book VI. In 512 B.C. Gelon was burnt out by the Emperor Dariy Gistasp. Supposedly Gelon was situated in the locality of Saratov. http://www.saratov-digital.com/presentation/past/gelon/eng_index.html Gelon - name of mega-yaht in Saratov

[edit] Gelo or Gelon

It's confusing that the title of this article is Gelo yet throughout the text he is referred to as Gelon. I wouldn't know which of the two versions is more standard but I have only heard of him under the name Gelon. If Gelon is standard, then the page should be moved - if Gelo then it should be changed in the text with the variant noted at the start. --Spondoolicks 22:49, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree --5telios 11:20, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

For what it's worth, Gelon is the preferred form, at least in everything I've ever read (latin and english). I have never seen Gelo. I reitereate Spoondolicks' point, that it is horrible encyclopaedic practice to have the lemma disagree with the title.--Ioshus^(talk) 22:23, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

In most translations of Archimedes I have seen, he is called Rex Gelon. Honestly, this is the form I would prefer, but since this is en, not la, maybe King Gelon?--Ioshus^(talk) 01:46, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I think straight Gelon is preferable. To those familiar with Sicily or the classical world in General will be looking for Gelon for the person and Gela for the place. I think having Gelo as the article name would be like having Ruggero as the article name for Roger of Sicily. --5telios 09:53, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately, Gelon is already taken...--Ioshus^(talk) 16:47, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Since there have not been any pro-Gelo voices so far, I suggest that this article is moved to Gelon with a disambiguation header for the city, while the Gelo page becomes a disambiguation page for the Gelao people, the racing team and the tyrant. The pre-existing Gelon page shouldn't be too much of a problem (although I'm not 100% clear on exactly what the procedure should be). Perhaps an administrator could be drafted in to move things around to preserve page histories and so forth. --Spondoolicks 10:49, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I thought it was usual in English to leave off the -n? Or is that the case only with Plato? Anyway, I created the redirect from Gelon simply because Gelo already existed. Adam Bishop 14:21, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

A small correction to something above: there is no doubt that the only correct form in Latin is Gelo. You won't find "Gelon" in Cicero or Livy. Thus, according to the tradition where we run Greek through Latin to make English (Oedipus, not Oidipous), the traditional English version of this name is also Gelo (compare Plato, Crito, Meno, etc.). Now, in fact, people tend to refer to this guy as Gelon (perhaps "GEE-low" just sounds too weird to some people). I'm guessing the article title here came from 1911 Britannica. Anyway, I like traditional English spellings & pronunciations of Classical names, but, I have to admit, when I published an article mentioning Gelo several times, I called him Gelon in deference to the more common 21st century scholarly usage. But I like the way Wikipedia tries to keep the traditional English names in general, and in a move vote I'd vote Gelo. This is in accord with WP:GREEK ("The normal English practice is to use the Roman standard, rather than attempting a phonetic transcription."). So the page should not be casually moved in a false panic of "Oh no it's wrong!" I've removed the inconsistency for now. Wareh 21:34, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

The traditional English name is the name most often used traditionally in English texts, not the name you chose to form retroactively by following what was done with Plato or the names of his texts. For whatever reason of chance and history, the traditional English name is indeed Gelon and it is found in this way in scholarly texts and schoolbooks in the UK at least until the mid 1990's. If since then, usage has reverted to what a latinised form of the name might have looked like had English chosen to adopt it, then by all means Gelo would be correct. I doubt this is the case, however. I am sorry to be quite so blunt. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 5telios (talk • contribs) 07:04, 26 April 2007 (UTC).come back to sign - sorry for having forgotten to do so: --5telios 07:45, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

No need to apologize for your bluntness, but your suggestion that Gelo is some kind of "retroactive" "might have" reconstruction is mistaken. It is exactly what I said it is, the traditional English form. I'm not sure "tradition" can be defined by a numerical census of authors as you seem to suggest ("most often"), but the fact that the form Gelo is traditional is quite obvious from its usage in Encyclopædia Britannica Eleventh Edition, George Grote's History of Greece and other standard histories (e.g. Connop Thirlwall's; English edition of Ettore Pais's Ancient Italy), James Frazer's Pausanias, George Rawlinson's Herodotus, and, for good measure, Ann Radcliffe's Sicilian Romance. I'm confining myself here to authors notable enough to have Wikipedia articles and whose names can be rattled off in a couple of minutes. Has Gelo fallen into some disuse? Yes. But it is the traditional form. Wareh 13:12, 26 April 2007 (UTC)