Talk:Geber
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[edit] Credit for alembic
I decided I should add a reference for the claim that Geber invented the alembic. Turns out this is difficult. This article in Isis (the most prestigious journal in the history of science) seems to establish beyond much doubt that Geber's design had existed much earlier. Wareh 22:10, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Too much focus on his ethnicity
It would be nice if all the effort focused on trying to determine which part of the middle east he was from could be directed toward finding references for the claims made in the article about the techniques he developed. There are very few citations (sometimes none) to back up claims of his discoveries. Jeremiah (talk·cont) 15:04, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
- Agreed. 17 references to back up that he was an Arab seems a bit like overkill to me. -kotra (talk) 23:21, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
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- How many would you prefer, then? Do you understand the concept of reference counting to determine which of two possibilities is better-supported? You can't provide just one reference for that, since none of the references themselves do the counting. There is a meaningful point here that cannot be demonstrated any other way: a) Geber is considered by overwhelming consensus to be Arab, however b) there is still significant literature suggesting he was Persian. In what universe are less references better and how do I get a bus pass to go there? --70.131.51.228 (talk) 00:12, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
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- You know well wikipedia doesnt lie on the truth but on the sources. You Arabs know well he was Persian (He was born in Tus in north east of Iran. See the map, how far is it from arabs?)... He was most probably Persian... You Arabs think that whoever is Muslim must be Arab, or whoever has an Islamic name, must be arab, or whoever knows arabic must be arab!!!! I am a muslim, my name is Mohammad, and I know arabic(because I learned to understand quran) but I am IRANIAN. The same thing was there for Geber... Actually its not that important for me, you can think as your wish, you can change the facts, take all Iranian scientists for arabs, call Persian gulf as a-r.a-b.i-a.n gulf... But know one thing, the truth never dies. --61.8.140.20 (talk) 02:40, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
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- I don't care whether or not he was an Arab, a Persian, or both. My point is just that when there are more than 5 or 6 references, new ones cease to have any useful purpose. When it comes to references, we should focus on quality, not quantity. Also, using a large number of references to prove a point (here that he is "overwhelmingly" considered to be Arab), is original research, even if it uses outside sources to come to that conclusion. None of the references actually claim that "most sources state that he was an Arab" (correct me if I'm wrong), so it is original research to take a bunch of references that say one thing and from that conclude that "most" say it. I could probably find 20 references that state the Holocaust didn't exist, and so conclude that "most" say that too, since there might be only 10 references in a Holocaust article that say it does. But that would of course be incorrect.
- If there aren't any reliable sources that say how common either view is (Arab or Persian), the best we can do is say "Some sources describe him as an Arab, whereas others describe him as a Persian." -kotra (talk) 17:10, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
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i totally agree with Kotra on his ethnicity, he was most definately persian, and most sources do not list him as arab. Arabs just come on wikiepdia and claim somehow every muslim must be arab, when it is quiet clear the scientific achievements during the middle ages were made by persians, jews, and Zoroastrianist's who converted to islam. The amounrt of nationalism and lieing and distorting makes me sick personally.Tomasz Prochownik (talk) 00:29, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Archived
I've archived the old discussions from before March 2007, mostly arguments about whether he was an Arab or Persian. -kotra (talk) 22:36, 3 March 2008 (UTC)