Talk:Gears of War

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Gears of War article.
Article policies
Archives: 1
Good article Gears of War has been listed as one of the Everyday life good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.
To-do: edit · history · watch · refresh

Here are some tasks you can do:
  • Requests: Better in-game screenshots; at least one from single player to demonstrate HUD, at least one from Annex gameplay to demonstrate multiplayer hude
  • Verify: Add references for Gameplay elements (manual, cited reviews, etc.)
  • Expand: Improve Reception section - more critical input from cited reviews with a balance of pros and cons
  • Other: Make sure references use standard citation templates
Archive
Archives
* Archive 1: March 2006 – March 2007


Contents

[edit] Web Address Corrections

A video review link in the external links section doesn't work as they have moved the page. Correcting it by changing the web address to the right one. 87.194.43.249 19:32, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Picture Format

I went ahead and changed the picture format from 720p to 1080i HDTV. This is an honest mistake, most xbox 360 games are 720p. Just wanted to let you guys know ;) (1sttomars 16:53, 18 March 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Merge from multiplayer/"Knowing the maps"

After seeing the GoW Multiplayer article that is being suggested as merging into this article, I've requested speedy deletion of it, and deleted the same material pulled in from that article into this one, basically because the information is not encyclopedic and more appropriate at GameFaqs, that "Wikipedia is not a guide game". --Masem 22:35, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree but I think if there already is an GoW multiplayer article then it should be put into this article. But you have a very good point. (1sttomars 17:18, 19 March 2007 (UTC))

i'm sorry but i have to disagree with the deletion of the multiplayer maps on wikipedia. ok maybe not a game guide, but more of a map guide... i play GoW myself (see my username) but i think that the multiplayer maps in GoW would be a good information topic however not a whole page on it. so i would have to support the merging of the maps into the page. perhaps a list of the maps, with links to the images of them? BestGoWSniperEver (talk) 00:49, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Achievements

We need to try and add achievements to the achievement section of the page...Grubish 19:33, 21 March 2007 (UTC)Grubish

First, FYI, new talk topics should always be at the bottom of the page (the little "+" in the tabs at the top automatically do this.
However, as to listing all the achievements, this is unnecessary, as it's game guide type material and there's other sites that cover this information. The present statement in the article on how achievements can be earn is sufficient for WP. --Masem 01:02, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Awards??

Did we not have an awards section on this page at one point? --Masem 19:16, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

I remeber there was once a review section at one point. Xavcam 22:27, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

I dug an old reception version out from about a month ago, which had more reception and award information. --Masem 23:39, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
The article cannot be editted at this time so do remember that that old reception section has changed EG gamerankings score changed and so Gears is NOT tied with Oblivion, it has dropped. 86.20.132.248 19:10, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] are nemacysts...

based on the real life organism Nematocysts? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.201.174.176 (talk) 01:57, 7 April 2007 (UTC).

Although they may have a similar name and appearance, there has been no mention in any known interviews detailing these specific enemies. I'm not ruling out that the Nemacysts are based off of "Nematocysts." Is it important enough to be mentioned in the article? Alby13 (talk) 05:02, 10 May 2008 (UTC)


Isnt that kinda irralavent?--Zdp0178 02:58, 23 April 2007 (UTC)


...Their flying Squids?

Uhhh yeah i never heard of nematocysts —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jackjohnson15 (talk • contribs) 22:56, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Patch date `

Please note that while there was, for a brief time, and reflected in articles across the internet, that the patch with Annex would be out April 9th, Epic and Microsoft had to back off of that ; the patch is still in the MS certification process and there is no sure date about this patch at this time. See the top of [1] for the updates on the patch date.

Again, there is NO patch to be released on 4/9/07 The patch w/ Annex will be out at some point in the future. --Masem 23:53, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

I have NO IDEA where this whole patch isnt being released on April 9 is coming from. It was announced on xbox.com as well as xbox live. Furthermore I am currently sitting in my living room playing Annex having downloaded the patch 20 minutes ago. NTFS 23:34, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
I stand corrected, but only because the 1up article I listed above retracted the 4/9 date. Maybe MS pushed it through quickly. Article is (shoud be?) updated now. --Masem 00:12, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Consolidating plot

The plot section is kind of long; it would not hurt to shorten it up and eliminate any "Fiction as Fact" mishaps. Also the list of acts seem somewhat needless. I would not mind cleaning it up, but I thought it would be a good idea to see what others think. :)--  ShadowJester07  ►Talk  23:48, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

The plot's already gone through a trimming edit from before, and while I know we could simplify it further, it may lose a bit. My suggestion is that we try to get this page ready for Peer Review and then see what others think; if the plot is too long, we can cut it down more from that. --Masem 00:16, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
The game is only about 8 hours long, and someone should take out some of the things that aren't really important in the article.--Gundor Twintle Fluffy 13:44, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Achievements List

Could any possible post a list of achievements. Thanks! Mawest11 02:50, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Currently, No. See WP:NOT#FAQ. We can however ad a reference or link to an official page that lists them all --  ShadowJester07  ►Talk  03:13, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Or, you can simply look up a site like GameFAQs rather than Wikipedia. --Scottie_theNerd 03:22, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Directing this page towards GA status

I think we're getting this page close to being a Good Article. Based on what the CVG project suggests, the primary thing we're missing is a section on history/development, and I'm sure there's more than a few articles out there on how GoW came to be.

If we can get this, I recommend we then have this page gone through peer review and then off for GA assessment. --Masem 21:17, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] PC Port

I think we should add information about a PC port since a preview was on Game Videos but it was quickly removed. YouTube Article on Joystiq Gamerzworld 01:57, 7 July 2007 (UTC)


A PC port was just confirmed in the Microsoft pre-E3 conference. --71.12.102.191 04:22, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Any source? - Found the source.. Look like the youtube video is deleted with this message :- This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Gamevideos.com.--SkyWalker 06:33, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
I was just watching Game Head on Spike and they where talking about how a lot of XBOX users probably assumed Epic was going to be a 2nd party developer for the 360 on all its console titles. And Mark Rein said that they are 3rd party and went on to say that they eve put their titles on the Mac. At this remark Geoff asked "So Gears of War on the Mac?" and Mark said "Yeah Gears is coming to the Mac so is UT". UT3 was already known to be Linux/Mac. Just wondered if this should be added, or if anyone had other sources to similar info.

[edit] Collector's Edition

While not much necessary, I added a Collector's Edition section and a image for it. I think it should be included since other game articles with a collectors edition has a section of it.Hugh000270 11:13, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Not a problem. You can add the pic. :) --SkyWalker 13:41, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Number of pictures

The number of pictures is getting out of hand on this article. Articles are not supposed to be non-free image galleries. Of the pictures on the page, I believe the only ones needed are: The Horde on Emergance Day, the shot of Delta squad, the regular box cover (and when the PC version cover is known, add that in too if it's radically different) and the special edition cover. The other pictures are merely decorative compared to what those pictures provide. --Masem 14:05, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree, There are no fair use rationales justify the use of all these images. Most of them should be removed. See WP:Fair Use --ShadowJester07 ► Talk 14:35, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
After reviewing the images, several of the newer ones lacked source information, and were removed (one of the robots would have done it anyways). However, all of the images lacked fair use rationales, and will be deleted within days if the uploader does not fix this. --ShadowJester07 ► Talk 15:03, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
None of the images depict gameplay. In fact the only images left are quite useless. -82.101.184.200 12:13, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
The extra images added did not depict gameplay either. I don't believe this article even had a gameplay picture for it yet. --Masem 12:45, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA comment

Before the article is reviewed by another editor, be sure to add a fair use rationale and source for the two screenshots which currently lack them. Also the inline citation references need to be reformatted to all use the citation templates (ex: 10 and 39 should be adjusted, and where are 9, 11, and 52?). Address these before the article is reviewed so you don't have to worry about it later. --Nehrams2020 00:02, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationales added, references fixed I think... Sdornan 04:10, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Macintosh version

All further needed sources included. I'm not adding it though. -Motleh 20:32, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Both of these eventually point back to the Game Head video at Game Trailers, thus they're not really unique sources. --Masem 22:02, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
Who cares? The interview is Mark Rein himself saying it's coming to Mac... you don't really need anymore sources if that's your source. That's about as credible as you can get.
Enfestid 22:18, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
Definitely not denying the verifiability of the source, just noting that those references don't add anything to the already linked in GameHead video, and thus I don't believe there's a need to include them. --Masem 22:27, 17 July 2007 (UTC)


[edit] GA Review

I have passed this article because I feel it reasonably fits the GA criteria:

GA review (see here for criteria)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    a (fair representation): b (all significant views):
  5. It is stable.
  6. It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.
    a (tagged and captioned): b (lack of images does not in itself exclude GA): [[Image:|15px]] c (non-free images have fair use rationales):
  7. Overall:
    a Pass/Fail:

Thanks. Any questions should be directed twoard my talk page. Cheers, and congratulations to all those involved. -- Anonymous DissidentTalk 09:20, 18 July 2007 (UTC)


I talked to AD above who gave the article the GA accessment. AD basically said that for the neutral vote on original research, we're lacking in references for the gaemplay sections. Obviously we can use the manual but if anyone has good citations from reviews and pre-release news, lets put those in to tighten it up (We've got a gameplay pic covered, it would be nice to maybe include an Annex shot?) --Masem 22:56, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
I've got the pre-release feature on GoW from EGM in my room. If you want it, PM or email me. David Fuchs (talk) 22:23, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
Not to sound like a kill-joy or anything, but the article could use some some criticism from reviewers; I think IGN or GS pointed out the Plot was too short. As long as the claims are in sync with WP:Attribution, we should be fine. Also, the Soundtrack section is kinda of dry. I believe it won an award - perhaps it would use some more information about the guy who wrote it or something :-p --ShadowJester07 ► Talk 21:39, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Live Free or Die Hard

Should we mention anything in the article about the references made to the game in the movie Live Free or Die Hard? They made two so I just thought it might be kinda important, probaly not though. ManofSTEEL2772—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 199.44.26.90 (talk • contribs) 21:39, 20 July 2007.

It's an interesting fact, but where should it be put? New 'In popular culture' section?--Svetovid 20:23, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
This is Interesting:
"IESB is reporting that that Live Free or Die Hard director Len Wiseman is currently in talks with New Line Cinema to develop and direct both a big screen adaptation of the popular X-Box 360 video game Gears of War and the announced Escape from New York remake."
--Mithos90 08:56, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Another Patch..

I switched on Gears just now, and the menu said it needed an update. Can anyone find out what this does? I check the epic forums and there's nothing there.RedEyesMetal 16:24, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

I see nothing yet on the usual places either - are you sure it's a Gears patch and not a Dashboard update (which is only to put support in for Guitar Hero wireless controllers) which came out today? --Masem 16:35, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

It's a Microsoft thing. All games will refuse to function without the absolute latest update installed. Machine758 15:14, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New Weapons

There is rumours going around theres going to be new weapons for gears of war does anybody have any info on this subject? thanks

None; It's not a good idea to take rumors seriously :p --ShadowJester07 ► Talk 03:48, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

well actually there are factual changes to the weapons in gears of war 2, however they have already been added to the gears of war 2 article, but he is kind of right. there will be improvements and also at least one new weapon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BestGoWSniperEver (talk • contribs) 00:58, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] King of the Hill???!!!

There is no king of the hill game type in gears. I'm deleting it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by GrievousMan0203 (talk • contribs) 22:21, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

King of the Hill will be in the PC version of the game only. --Masem 23:21, 12 September 2007 (UTC)


seriously? I hate EPIC. not only are they getting 5 extra chapters, but a new game type too? GrievousMan0203 18:16, 16 September 2007 (UTC)


Actually There is a King of the Hill in Gears of war, Its called Annex..... Its just a Different name —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.220.156.80 (talk) 19:13, 21 November 2007 (UTC)


Wrong, King of the Hill mode is similiar to Annex but envolves only one capture point that stays in one place throughout the whole match whilst Annex's capture point moves after a certain amount of points have been taken. It's not "the same but with a different name". --Alan (talk) 07:00, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Reception

The reception section is to bias towards the game, even though it did get praise and awards most featured articles have a balance between what reviewers noted as pros and cons. Plus it needs a bit of reorganising. If you check out the Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion and BioShock pages they've added in cons and notice with the Oblivion page theres a review/awards table which is small but lists most (no minor trivial awards which this article does however) but retains a presentable amount. Stabby Joe 12:58, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism in Plot Section

There's been vandalism in the Plot section done by user AlphaX99. I highly doubt Bob Saget was a former COG soldier, and he definitely didn't team up with Mary-Kate Olsen to defeat Myspace Predator #347. Just wanted to draw attention to it (not really familiar with editing wiki entries yet, and I don't have an account either... sorry :P)

EDIT: Well, it seems that the aforemention Full House cast memebers have been given honorable discharge from the COG army. Great. Now can someone please change the "Myspace Predator #347" part back into General RAMM? Don't mean to whine about it, given I could just get an account and do it myself, but this article has (somehow) gained GA status... just figured some dedicated editor would want to fix that up. Cool.167.1.143.100 16:38, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] PC Release Date?

http://pc.ign.com/articles/824/824946p1.html reports a date of Nov. 6, 2007. Think it's valid? 24.218.132.59 00:11, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Acknowledged and added. Looking for sysreqs if you can find them. --MASEM 01:05, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gears Film Adaption Possibly Canceled

I haven't seen this mentioned in the Gears Film Article. But there was news released on October 4th 2007 that its possible that the Gears Film Adaption has been canceled due to due to the budget concerns the studio has. Also seeing the Day before this announcement, Stuart Beattie who was writing the script for the film was pretty hyped up when it actually hit the big screens. GP Exclusive: Hollywood writer talks Gears of War movie. Well It was proved wrong the Following Day after. Check out the Article for yourselfs. Confirmed: Ratner Replaces Wiseman on New York Plus an Update on Gears of War!.

I am still new at adding things to articles and was wondering if someone could please add this posted News about the film into the Gears Film adaption section so fans wont become miss guided. Thanks. The links are posted again below. "BTW" b4 someone starts a discussion YES I know the Halo Film adaption was also canceled. Ironicly these two Game to Film adaptions were canceled on the same excat day about. Just a fun fact.

--҉ რɫՒ◌§ 9¤ ॐ 04:55, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Film Adaption Needs to be Updated

The Film Section needs to be updated As long ago the film was announced Canceled. --҉ რɫՒ◌§ 9¤ ॐ 00:51, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Intellectual Property

I think that we should make note of the owner of the intellectual property. Does anyone know if it is Microsoft or Epic that owns the Gears of War IP? 71.192.54.222 00:29, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

I assume Epic does, and I have heard a lot of rumors about MS having a 2-3 game deal with Epic... it never even occured to me that MS might own the IP. Now I am interested. Does anyone know for sure? 142.165.59.39 (talk) 21:12, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cover Art

The Cover image needs to be changed because it is no longer and xbox exclusive. 192.136.15.130 17:50, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I disagree Superbowlbound 18:04, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
That is a silly and superficial change. In fact, it's so irrelevant that I'm almost tempted to say it smacks of irrational spite. Michael.A.Anthony (talk) 00:39, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mostly positive reviews?

The article reads that "Upon its release, Gears of War received mostly positive reviews from critics," and goes on to cite the 94 from gamerankings, massive commercial success, and the innumerable awards it received from major award shows. The lowest professional review score was an 8/10, and even then from trashheap wastes of bandwidth like Eurogamer. I've changed it to "universally positive reviews." Someone can feel free to change this, but when the lowest available scores are from the least reputed websites and they're still entirely positive, "mostly positive" is not appropriate. Michael.A.Anthony (talk) 00:35, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Eurogamer reviews from a different scale, and the ratings average is around 5, so an 8 in Eurogamer is equavalent of 9+ from other publications.--60.242.159.224 (talk) 03:14, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Despite mostly being positive, theres little balance of pros and cons, its mostly pros which isn't neutral, find it supprising it s a good class with this issue. And your Eurogamer comment is an indication of strong bias for the article. Stabby Joe (talk) 19:07, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lancer

I was looking at this article due to the Lancer, the most notible feauture of the game, which has a place in geek culture. I wanted to read the influnces as it is very reminshent of warhammer 40k (chainsaw swords) and some other references. I believe that Lancer Assault Rifle should have a small but indipendent article and not a redirect. --Squidonius (talk) 13:40, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

If you can find sources that say what previous games lead to the design of the Lancer or other weapons, that can be added to the development section, but we can't add what "seems" to be an influence. The weapon itself is unique to be noted in the article (unless most other games where specific weapons are strongly discouraged) but needs sources to justify more. --MASEM 14:14, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cover System

Just a small suggestion. Do people think that it should be noted that Gears has played a very important role in popularizing the "cover system" in contemporary games? While i am well aware that Gears did not invent it, it seems that it's increased inclusion and popularity in many newer games (Uncharted: Drakes Fortune, Brothers in Arms, Kayne & Lynch, etc..) has stemmed as a direct result of the refinement it achieved in Gears of War. For just as Halo has become synonymous with its popularization of the rebounding health meter, will Gears not in years to come be remembered for popularising the cover system and do people think it is worth a mention in the article? (Washboardplayer (talk) 14:19, 1 March 2008 (UTC))

I think that it should be noted. Game developers along with game players both comment on the excellent cover system that Gears of War has practically mastered. Alby13 (talk) 05:07, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
We would need a source that says that Gears has influenced cover systems for games; we cannot make that statement ourselves. --MASEM 05:13, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Reception section

Its not only organised poorly but only mentions the small part of reviews. Firstly notice that many featured game pages don't mention EVERY SINGLE review it got because its unpresentable, in most cases they name the more notable ones and leave a link for a full list, usually found on official websites. And of course wht reviews liked and didn't like is very small, it needs one hell of a clean up. 15:04, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

The "Reviews" section is a work in progress - I only just started modifying it yesterday (it had no commentary previously from the reviews to explain why the game was good, and I only just added the negative side stuff as that was easier to get quote bits for ). --MASEM 15:18, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
Fair enough, my main beef is mostly with the awards, for to many listed compared with others, Half Life 2 for one. Stabby Joe (talk) 19:38, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
I am considering cutting them down to GotY (and noting other "of the year" were awards, but not listing). Also need to add in reception on the PC version too. It won't be this unbalanced when completed. --MASEM 20:43, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
Good to know because when I was improving Super Mario Galaxy, its still having issues but atleast its somewhat more balanced and for the Overlord article, I had to expand and really balance it out before getting it up a grade... and this one does despite having zero balance? Anyway should improve soon.Stabby Joe (talk) 12:47, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Peer review

Is there any way this article can be peer reviewed by Wikipedia? How do we accomplish this? Off! (talk) 17:37, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Gears 2

There should be more info on Gears of War 2. All this article says is the release date. There have been many more things about the game released recently. Like the charachters in the game and a plethora of screen shots. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thrashfan17 (talk • contribs) 20:10, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

It's sufficient to list the announcement and release date. New information for Gears of War 2 should be added on the Gears of War 2 article. The List of Gears of War characters and adversaries page already includes the new character updates. Alby13 (talk) 05:19, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Allegory

I can't be the only person who thinks the allegory and references made to the Iraq War are pretty clear. Shouldn't there be a section of the article devoted to it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fiercefox (talk • contribs) 16:40, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

No, It's just you. Given that there are no primary sources that confirm (or even mention) this, it's not even worth explaining or let alone mentioning in this article. The only social commentary the game makes is blatantly stated in Destroyed Beauty, in which the narrator contemplates whether war/prolonged conflicts can make humanity stronger or weaker. --  ShadowJester07  ►Talk  19:20, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Merge in Soundtrack article

It is basically the soundtrack list and two sentences about the game. A merger would bolster this article and eliminate a Gears of War stub article. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 00:12, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

I second this. The soundtrack is an article with little relevance and could be added to this article seamlessly. Dude527 (talk) 02:40, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
I second your second Dude527.It should be merged to give space to a better article.Murtagh756 (talk) 08:58, 23 may 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.184.238.43 (talk)

[edit] Novelization

According to TeamXbox, Epic games is in works of making a GOW novel, The Pendulum Wars, which is set to come out August 2008.[2] Would it be best to mention the novel within this article, or create a new article altogether. --  ShadowJester07  ►Talk  16:56, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Stick it in the "Other merchandise" section for now. If it receives significant attention, we can break out an article for it. --MASEM 16:58, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Damn that was a fast response =0. Will Do. --  ShadowJester07  ►Talk  17:00, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Trilogy?

For now I'm going to remove mention of Gears of War being a trilogy I posted the following here until there is offical word.

  • I noticed that Gears of War is listed in notable releases as the second part of a trilogy. There appears to be no mention of this in the games article and the reference offered on the Gears of War article only contains a quote from a Jeff Bell who basically appears to be a marketing man (albeit with an impressive sounding title).[3]. I can't find any word from Epic regarding a triolgy.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:2008_in_video_gaming". Natcong (talk) 15:18, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

According to Epic, "Gears is a trilogy? If we can keep making quality games that fans obviously love [...] then why would we have to stop at three? I don't see the Metal Gear Solid, Mario, Grand Theft Auto or Final Fantasy series (among others) stopping at three and they're still delivering compelling entertainment content that's easily worth the money (see Unreal Tournament as well). There's definitely, as many of you have pointed out, a lot more to learn about what's really happening on the plant Sera and in the lives of the members of Delta Squad." Kotaku, JoyStiq. --  ShadowJester07  ►Talk  17:08, 2 June 2008 (UTC)