Talk:Gay village/Archive 1

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"gay destination"

The reputation of an area as a "gay destination" has sometimes been controversial (I seem to recall this being the case with Lesbos, for example). I think NPOV would suggest a note on this, but danged if I can think of a polite way to say it.

resorts

wonder if it would be better to list the resorts under gay villages, perhaps with a note of explanation? Also, I'm not sure about Lesbos, can anyone confirm? Exploding Boy 08:48, Jan 27, 2004 (UTC)

No, the resorts are different from gay villages in that gays and lesbians don't necessarily live there all year. For example, Provincetown only gets swarmed by gay and lesbian tourist during the summer months and is a fairly ordinary (ie. not particularly gay) seaside town the rest of the year.
Lesbos is a popular summer holiday destination among lesbians, despite the Lesvonians not liking their island's association with lesbianism very much (they don't seem to mind profiting from the tourism though).
I think the phrase "are known as primarily gay areas" should be changed as at least some of them (as pointed out above) are only gay areas during the tourist season.
-- Kimiko 19:45, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

In that case maybe the resorts belong somewhere else. By the way, I believe the correct term for people from Lesbos is, in fact, Lesbians. Exploding Boy 21:40, Mar 3, 2004 (UTC)

I'm not sure they merit a separate article right away, but go ahead if you like.
No, Lesvonians is the preferred term. Read Lesbos.
-- Kimiko 22:42, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Gateshead

I'm not even sure why that's on this list. And if it's considered to be gay, then there should be some mention of that in the Gateshead page. Since there's almost 200,000, if there is considered to be a gay centre somewhere there, then specify where it is. I'm removing it - if someone wishes to put it back, add some more detail.

Ditto the same with Oxted. I am going to remove it because it appears to be vandalism Gingerblokey 00:48, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Long Beach

It's a quiet community, but it's definitely there--there's a few gay bars, and plenty of gay residents in the Craftsman homes by the ocean. jengod 21:45, Mar 22, 2004 (UTC)

I'll take your word for it. Any city of its size has a gay community to speak of. Whether or not it's a gay village as described by the article, I don't know. If you believe it is, I believe you. Moncrief 21:46, Mar 22, 2004 (UTC)
Yes it is, and having lived there for about 18 months, I think that I can say so with some authority. The community centers around the Belmont Shores district, and tends (at least in my humble opinion) to skew more lesbian than gay. Hope it helps - That damned polymath Two Halves unlogged in yet again

Thanks two halves--my mom mentioned it to me, so I couldn't have testified on my own, but I was pretty sure. Danke to you both! jengod 21:57, Mar 22, 2004 (UTC)

The article on Long Beach says it's a place with 461,522 inhabitants. That's not a village nor an enclave, and unless at least a plurality of those people are gay, it's not gay either. --Joy [shallot] 22:43, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I'm not personally farmiliar with the city, but I assume (if info above is correct) that it would added to the list as:

It does not imply that the whole of Long Beach is gay any more than the comparable listing Atlanta, Georgia: Midtown implies that a plurality of Atlanta is gay. These neighborhoods in each given city represent the area with the highest concentration of (or reputation) gay people. Autiger 00:22, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)


Even though West Hollywood, California has a plurality of gay council members the last time I checked, it probably doesn't have more gay businesses than general businesses and certainly doesn't have more gay residents than non-gay residents. As for Long Beach--it has a fairly large number of gay-owned business, with most of them located on Broadway, plus 2nd and 4th Steets between Downtown and Belmont Shores. There are only a few gay businesses in the Belmont Shores neighborhood itself, although what is probably the biggest gay bar in Long Beach (Ripples) is "hidden" along Ocean Blvd. (the main business district in the area is the v-e-r-y busy 2nd Street).

Long Beach doesn't have as obvious a gay district as West Hollywood or other "Gay Villages" however. Most of the bars (usually along Broadway) are fairly discreet and don't stand out from the rest of the fairly quiet neighborhood. There also many of the restaurants, antique stores, thrift shops, vintage clothing boutiques, art galleries, and other stores that cater to the general public in the area that are gay-owned (Cher's daughter Chastity owns a restaurant in the area). I've never seen statistics, but my guess is that Long Beach has a much higher percentage of lesbians, and of gay couples, than most gay villages.

To give you an idea of the size of the gay community, Long Beach has the fourth largest Gay Pride Parade in the United States, with only West Hollywood, San Francisco and New York's parades being largest. The only larger event in Long Beach is the annual Long Beach Grand Prix. All of this is a very long-winded way of saying that yes, Long Beach definately belongs on this list. [[User:GK|gK ¿?]] 09:35, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Gaybourhood

Since it was removed from the list of synonyms, what is the difference between a "gay village" and a "gaybourhood"? -- Beland 06:31, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I've never even heard of a "gaybourhood". 70.48.111.76 14:00, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
It's a regularly used, though campy expression in Canada. Kind of annoying. Dan Carkner 03:00, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

It is common in the U.S. as slang expression, except that in Philadelphia I believe it's rather accepted now. And, in American Standard English, it's spelled "gayborhood," "neighborhood" and "city center." Really, can't we get rid of these "ye olde" Anglo-French spellings, if only in those sections that deal with U.S. subject matter, i.e., Stonewall and Greenwich Village? Thanks. posted by user:66.255.9.254.

Hmm. I'm usually not so easily pissed off, but I found the above post quite insulting. Those spellings are not, as the anonymous user suggests, old fasioned, out dated and slightly silly. They are, in fact, both current and used by a majority of the world's native speakers of English. Exploding Boy 20:17, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

We use the term up here in Western New York. Wandering Star 14:41, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Information from The Gay & Lesbian Atlas

I just found out about The Gay & Lesbian Atlas, by Gary J. Gates and Jason Ost, Urban Institute Press, which looks like it has some very good information that could be used for this article. The Urban Institute website has a couple of pages condensing the infomation in the book: Facts and Findings from The Gay and Lesbian Atlas and In Cities, Suburbs and the Sticks: Gary Gates Uncovers the U.S. Communities that Same-Sex Couples Call Home. I'd like to add some of this info to the Gay Village article, but I don't really know enough about any of the places mentioned except for California. I think that for some of the cities mentioned that have concentrations of same-sex couple households they are cities that don't have a well-defined gay village, so that a new list, or perhaps even a new article, might need to be started. I would like others to look at this info and offer their opinions. BlankVerse ∅ 13:48, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Gay Tijuana and Hillcrest, California

Two things I thought I should mention here:

San Francisco, California

Can someone explain why South of Market is considered gay? It's no more gay than any other part of the City.

Ever heard of the Folsom Street Fair? Darkcore 23:06, 3 May 2005 (UTC)
Why is Bernal Heights on this list? I'm removing.
Ever hear of lesbians? The Wild Side West bar is a lesbian hangout and the bernal heights neighborhood has a really high concentration of lesbian couples.--DaveOinSF 18:43, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Ever hear of lesbians? What kind of question is that? There are gays and lesbians all over the city, but that doesn't make all the places they live "gay villages." Every been to the south of southeast side of Bernal Heights? It would be incorrect to characterize Bernal Heights as gay. Griot 12:00, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
You have got to be kidding me. Bernal Heights is practically synonymous with lesbians. Certainly not as one-dimensional as the Castro, but what is? Here's some links on the Bernal scene:
I'd be willing to say North Bernal Heights, but it belongs on that list one way or another.
It isn't worth arguing over, so I'll leave it, but you obviously have never strayed very far off Cortland Ave. Next time you're up there, go to Holly Park and head in a southeasterly direction. If you see any lesbians, let me know. And be sure and go in the daytime.
FYI, SOMA is synonymous with the LGBT leather/BDSM scene; Bernal Heights is also known as "lesbian hill." Benjiboi 07:25, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Gay villages as Exclusionary

I edited this from its original content because I did not believe it to be NPOV. I also added a footnote about Denver, because I grew up there and did not find the all-encompassing language that was used to describe Gay villages to fit Denver's description at all.

That section is terrible. I'm willing to give the author the benefit of the doubt that it was written in good faith, but the passive voice, lack of citations, and let alone the NPOV is well below the standards of Wikipedia. I gave it the "weasel words" tag. I'll monitor the page and the talk page to see if any improvements can be made, but if nothing happens within two weeks, I will delete that section.--DaveOinSF 08:49, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
OK, two weeks have passed and there has been no effort to improve the section that I tagged. I am removing the section.--DaveOinSF 02:19, 20 June 2006 (UTC)


This section is a giant crock of garbage. I cant believe wikipedia keeps it. seminole heights in tampa fl. is mostly lower income families and is just an old run down section of town. Although it is becoming gentrified, its not due to an influx of "gays." This is completely inaccurate. It seems any neighborhood with a young population or high number of artist is automatically considered a gay neighborhood.

Washington, DC

The notation "more specifically 17th Street" is not accurate. Though it probably has the highest concentration of specifically gay shops and nightlife (heck, I spend most of my time at JR's and Cobalt when I'm in DC!), these things are to be found all over the Dupont Circle neighborhood. My suggestion is to remove this notation, and possibly also to add Logan Circle to the list. Any objections? kdogg36 04:16, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm from DC and agree on Logan Circle, except that you ought to include Capitol Hill if you go beyond Dupont. The Hill is an older gay neighborhood than Logan, and I bet there are more gays on the Hill than in Logan even now.

It looks like the article has been reverted back to "Dupont Circle, specifically 17th Street." This is simply inaccurate -- there is a heavy (even dominant) gay presence in the entire neighborhood. Although I think Logan Circle and Capitol Hill could also be listed, this time I'm just going to get rid of the erroneous "17th Street" comment. kdogg36 20:45, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

France

The list of gay villages includes France, with the explanation "generally everywhere". If all of France is that full of gay people, then there's no need for a village, is there? It's a whole nation!

This could, of course, be a vandal traying to say "France is gay", as some sort of insult. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.6.185.116 (talk) 23:00, 17 April 2007 (UTC).

Bookstores

They usually contain a number of gay-oriented establishments, such as gay bars or pubs, nightclubs, bathhouses, restaurants, bookstores...

"Bookstores" seems an odd addition here! Any thoughts?

EVOCATIVEINTRIGUE TALKTOME | EMAILME | IMPROVEME 15:17, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't seem too odd to me. Bookstores catering to LGBT customers are a staple of many gay villages; examples include Lambda Rising in DC, Baltimore and Norfolk, Oscar Wilde (and several others) in NYC, A Different Light in LA and SF, and many others.kdogg36 20:49, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Hudson, NY

(from the Reference Desk) Is Hudson, New York a gay resort town? -- Beland 20:49, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

I have not heard anything of that sort. On the other hand, it has a large and growing artistic community, and these people are not known for sexual orthodoxy. Haiduc 00:54, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
(I've removed it from the list for now. -- Beland 14:14, 20 July 2006 (UTC))

Osborne Village in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

I'm not sure I'd agree that Osborne Village in Winnipeg would classify as a Gay Village. The are no pride flags to be seen anywhere in the area, and the yearly pride events including the parade don't go anywhere near Osborne Village. I however have no other suggestion for a Gay Village in Winnipeg because I don't think there is one.

Northbridge?!

Since when is Northbridge (in Perth, Western Australia) a gay village?

POV flag

The article contains a large number of subjective statements. These could well be true, but such style is inappropriate here. For instance "It is not surprising that..." should be replaced by a properly sourced opinion from an acknowledged authority.

Another example would be "After the civil disobedience exhibited at Stonewall, where the most marginalized, 'out,' and 'gender-bending' members of society gained the courage to question authority and assert their individuality..." contains a number of opinions. For instance who is to say that the LGBT individuals were the "most marginalised"? Either provide sources or settle for saying something like "severely marginalised", which I don't think many people would dispute. As for "gained the courage...", I presume that this is based on first-hand accounts. If so, then it would be better to say that those who particpated in the Stonewall civil disobedience "reported that" they gained courage etc., or some such words. Again. provide sources as far as is practicable. Ireneshusband 07:45, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

As a bohemian artist and poet I object to the description of bohemians as "moral deviants" along with hobos and prostitutes. - Mark Dixon 15:50, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

pgh / dtw

shadyside? clearly who ever added that has never actually been to pittsburgh. i guess that means the actual areas where out queers buy houses are chopped liver. with no bus service.

and ferndale and royal oak as gay? really? what year is this? 1984? maybe there are still a few queers that haven't been chased out of ferndale, but jesus, get with the times, ye who added that. and really, can't some of the queer parts of the actual city get included? what? too black for you, anonymous wiki contributor? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 151.201.53.4 (talk) 10:11, 6 January 2007 (UTC).

Political Affililations

Do you think a bit about gay villages being radically progressive should be included, and that many gay people find this distasteful? Gay villages tend to be very culturally and politically monolithic. - MSTCrow 11:45, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

You would need a source for such a claim; otherwise this would be either opinion or original research. Rebecca 12:02, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure that you could call any gay village radically progressive, unless you think that banning the declawing of cats fits that category (West Hollywood, California). Laguna Beach, California, on the other hand, could be called liberal (especially compared to the rest of Orange County), but I'm not sure that I'd call it progressive. You are really going to have to come up with multiple sources for such a claim. BlankVerse 13:03, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

History of the gay village

I've found sources that confirm it is not a 'relatively new invention.' If no one has an objection I'd like to amend the current text with a citation request and to add the counter view. The description of the Stonewall Riots seems very POV as User:Ireneshusbandnd pointed out above. I'd like to edit that as well.Parammon 05:36, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

citation style

Because of its poor use of references, this article looks like it has none at first glance. It is difficult to tell what is referenced and what is not, so unreferenced material can slip in easily and unnoticed. And because large portions of this article are original research, it is likely that good material will be removed with the bad. Please see WP:CITE for information. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 06:30, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. I have no intention to delete any content in the article myself, but there is the possibility that someone who finds unreferenced material contentious or even insulting may do so. I tagged several statements with "citation needed"; here are more details why:
  • Who calls a "gay village" a "gay ghetto"? Is it really "increasingly" referred to as a "gayborhood"?
  • From where in the gay community are they getting the slang names: "gaybourhood, gay-to (a pun on ghetto), gaytown, gayville and Queer Quarter"?
  • How often is "ghetto" really used to describe gay communities?
  • Who are the "many" that find this appropriate?
  • Are inner city districts really the "only" places that these communities can thrive?
  • Is "less gay visibility" really tied to the presence of "a liberal, affirming counterculture"?
  • Are cities governments really creating gay villages and capitalizing on gay dollars?
  • Are there no gay villages in Stockholm and Copenhagen? Is it really because of "earlier and greater social acceptance"?
If they are true, I think it would be appropriate to link each statement with its reference. This would provide more clarity, and reduce the need to research every general reference listed at the end to verify any given statement.
--JKeene 18:12, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
Gay ghetto is very common and cited in the references (Levine, 1979). I've removed the most unsubstantiated/uncommon Names section and cleaned up the lede a bit. Will do some more cleanup and look for some more cites (or move some inline) on the other concerns you have (except I have no clue about Stockholm/Copenhagen). AUTiger » talk 23:02, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Stockholm

I have never heard of Södermalm being the "Gay village" in Stockholm. And i live there and I am gay... But rather Gamla Stan (Old town), since the most gay clubs, restaurants and cafés are. Gamla Stan has also been mentioned in Swedish newspaper as "Fjollywood", fjolla is an effeminate man in swedish, or "Stollybollywood", from the drink Stollybolly. Just wanted to point that out. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.66.61.20 (talk) 18:09, 23 March 2007 (UTC).

What happened!?!?!

Why is did the list of gay villages get deleted from the main gay village page? Why is the new link to a list of villages not as complete as the old list used to be!?!?!?

(Dgran8866 01:48, 26 March 2007 (UTC))